View Poll Results: Who is the best "Cricketer" ever

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  • Keith Miller

    1 1.33%
  • Imran Khan

    7 9.33%
  • Gary Sobers

    16 21.33%
  • Jacques Kallis

    15 20.00%
  • Don Bradman

    28 37.33%
  • WG Grace

    5 6.67%
  • Other

    3 4.00%
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Thread: Who is the Best "Cricketer" Ever?

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    Imran wouldn't have been selected as a batsman alone? You should probably write comics than wasting your time here Sir
    Imran would not be selected as a pure batsman. He is definitely an ATG bowler, but his batting is not that good. Its the worst of the great all rounders besides Hadlee, imo.

    Clearly you have no idea about cricket if you think Sobers is one of the worst bowlers. For one, cricket is about much more than statistics and two, Sobers bowling record isn't even that bad, statistically.
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  2. #242
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    Imran wouldn't have been selected as a batsman alone? You should probably write comics than wasting your time here Sir
    Read my post. I said it's "questionable" whether he'd have made the **** side as a batsman.

    Which means he might have, or mighn't have. Which I though was fairly clear.

    Imran spent the majority of his career batting at 7 or 8. Most of the time, players who have been selected as batsmen don't bat this low.

  3. #243
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Read my post. I said it's "questionable" whether he'd have made the **** side as a batsman.

    Which means he might have, or mighn't have. Which I though was fairly clear.

    Imran spent the majority of his career batting at 7 or 8. Most of the time, players who have been selected as batsmen don't bat this low.
    Is P...A...K...I on the swear filter?

  4. #244
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    The definition of an all rounder as one who can make the side as a batsman or bowler alone is pretty high imo. Perhaps even unachievable if the likes of Sobers and Imran don't qualify. Anyone whose batting ave is better than his bowling ave (given a few qualifying restrictions like no of runs/wkts taken) is a more realistic standard determining all round value I'd guess.

    Sobers was a very very good bowler. And he could bowl the bloody lot too. A little better than the likes of Sami or Scott Muller and host of others in the last 50 years too, I'd have thought


  5. #245
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    The definition of an all rounder as one who can make the side as a batsman or bowler alone is pretty high imo. Perhaps even unachievable if the likes of Sobers and Imran don't qualify. Anyone whose batting ave is better than his bowling ave (given a few qualifying restrictions like no of runs/wkts taken) is a more realistic standard determining all round value I'd guess.

    Sobers was a very very good bowler. And he could bowl the bloody lot too. A little better than the likes of Sami or Scott Muller and host of others in the last 50 years too, I'd have thought
    Yeh, I guess the point is that it is a really high criteria. Fwiw I think Sobers would have made the WI's team on bowling alone, and I believe when he was first selected it was primarily as a bowler.

    On Miller, I think he's the most "genuine" all rounder ever. There is no doubt that he would've been picked in the Australian team as either a batsman OR a bowler. He was a genuine top 6 batsman and an opening bowler. The only other players that were capable of this were Jack Gregory and Ian Botham. Maybe Kapil.

    I sort of categorize in to genuine all rounders, bowling all rounders and batting all rounders. It doesn't really matter though!

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    He is at worse comparable to Kallis, and we see how valuable he is to that team. Sobers bore a much greater burden and on much less responsive wickets for the most part. They were times he had to open the bowling and come back to play the role of stock bowler holding up an end and controlling the run rate, some times as a seamer sometimes as a spinner.
    .
    Yes Sobers was doing all of that but he wasn't very good at it and he did that in a time when the bowling stocks really do seem to be low around the world. E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    Yes Sobers was doing all of that but he wasn't very good at it and he did that in a time when the bowling stocks really do seem to be low around the world. E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.
    Bollocks is it.
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  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.
    You really want to go down this line of thinking?
    Fine, then Imran Khan was about as good a batsman as Suresh Raina, that's what his record tells me

  9. #249
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyanash89 View Post
    You really want to go down this line of thinking?
    Fine, then Imran Khan was about as good a batsman as Suresh Raina, that's what his record tells me
    how does his record tell you that btw?

    and

    Raina > Ishant any day
    Last edited by smalishah84; 18-04-2013 at 03:00 AM.

  10. #250
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    Yes Sobers was doing all of that but he wasn't very good at it and he did that in a time when the bowling stocks really do seem to be low around the world. E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.
    By this argument Imran and Miller's batting average was similar to Carl Hooper's and similarily would have no place in an AT XI, makes no sence. The All Rounder is there to act as a top order batting specialist and the 5th bowler and as universally acknowled by All (including Smali in various threads not too long ago when he stated that as crickets there was Bradman, Sobers then everyone one else and Imran had as legitimate a case as anyone else for no. 3) there was no one better in that role than Sobers.

    Regarding players who would have made their teams as a batsman or bowler, there is Sobers, Botham, Miller and for a brief time that Imran was injured and couldn't bowl he focused on and played as a batsman.

    Sobers, Botham, Miller and as mentioned previously Chappell, Hammond, Kallis, MCcabe ect added even more value to their teams as they were also way above average, spectacular slip fielders. This is also one of the reasons that many choose Warne over Murali as it's an added dimension that he brings to a team.
    Last edited by kyear2; 18-04-2013 at 06:12 AM.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  11. #251
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    Sobers' seam bowling was ideally suited to English conditions - have a look at his record in this country (not forgetting when he played for the Rest of the World in 1970) - his record for a third seamer is outstanding and I have no doubt at all that he'd have been picked here even if he was an out and out rabbit with the bat - that he wasn't good enough for that to apply elsewhere I'm happy to accept, but then there have been plenty of seam bowlers who have performed superbly here but rather less well overseas (Terry Alderman and Bob Massie being two who immediately spring to mind)

  12. #252
    H4G
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Imran would not be selected as a pure batsman. He is definitely an ATG bowler, but his batting is not that good. Its the worst of the great all rounders besides Hadlee, imo.

    Clearly you have no idea about cricket if you think Sobers is one of the worst bowlers. For one, cricket is about much more than statistics and two, Sobers bowling record isn't even that bad, statistically.
    By the later 2/3 of his career Imran had become an excellent batsman, better than likes of Miller, Botham & Kapil by leaps & bounds and would make any team with ease.You really need to get your facts right.
    Last edited by H4G; 18-04-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    By this argument Imran and Miller's batting average was similar to Carl Hooper's and similarily would have no place in an AT XI, makes no sence. The All Rounder is there to act as a top order batting specialist and the 5th bowler and as universally acknowled by All (including Smali in various threads not too long ago when he stated that as crickets there was Bradman, Sobers then everyone one else and Imran had as legitimate a case as anyone else for no. 3) there was no one better in that role than Sobers.
    Don' make your own definitions an allrounder. An allrounder can be an opening batsman & a 5th bowler and could also be an opening bowler & lower middle order batsman.If we take your definition into account then Sobers was also not a top order batsman

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    Yes Sobers was doing all of that but he wasn't very good at it and he did that in a time when the bowling stocks really do seem to be low around the world. E.g. Ishant Sharma won't be anywhere near an ATG bowling line up and that is what Sobers bowling record basically is.
    TBH Sobers has to be thrice as worst as 2nd worst bowler ever because he could bowl all 3 styles crap.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    By the later 2/3 of his career Imran had become an excellent batsman, better than likes of Miller, Botham & Kapil by leaps & bounds
    Hahahahahahaha
    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    TBH Sobers has to be thrice as worst as 2nd worst bowler ever because he could bowl all 3 styles crap.
    Bahahahaha.

    You're funny.

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