Matt Prior

[ImpatientLime]

After his superb innings today to save the match and series for England, I'd like to get some discussion going on Matt Prior and start with a few questions.

Does he make your all time England side? As far as pure keepers go he's not even in the picture, but in terms of a batsman/keeper package only Les Ames gets near him.

After the dark days of the early 80s right through to the early 00s England have had a pretty good time of it and have boasted some very good players. Where does Prior rank amongst them? Has there been a more valuable player for England since 2003?

Lastly, where does he rank amongst the great wicket keeper batsmen. Gilchrist and Flower are obviously the standouts in this category.

Amazing to think that Prior was once a laughing stock and dropped from some absolutely dire keeping displays. He's not great with the gloves by any means but throw in his batting where he has proven himself in every kind of situation and in all conditions, he really is a fantastic player and the first name on England's team sheet everytime.

[Lillian Thomson]

By the standards of keeping that's deemed acceptable in today's game he's become bordering on adequate.
All Time XI, not a chance. With the quality of batting that would be available there'd be no need to sacrifice Alan Knott just on the possibility of squeezing out a few extra runs.

[Satyanash89]

His keeping's improved a great deal since his early years, and he's one of England's most dependable batsmen. Consistently performs in all conditions, and has played numerous high pressure knocks already. Absolute gun. Honestly think he's the second best batsman keeper after gilchrist, if you just look at the batting.

If he improves his keeping he has a very good chance of ending up a better overall keeper batsman than Knott

[Uppercut]

Yeah he's a brilliant player. There was a minor backlash after the SA series but I didn't think it was justified at all.

I tend to go along with the modern emphasis on a wicketkeeper's ability with the bat, so I would certainly pick him before Knott. Ames, I can't really say.

[flibbertyjibber]

He is the current standard bearer as Gilchrist was in his time as a player for the rest to follow. I wouldn't personally put him up as a player for the all time England team as his glovework (though good and vastly improved) isn't at the level of Knott/Taylor etc...

Having said that if he carried this level of form on for another couple of years and played over 100 tests, continued his excellent glovework improvements of the last few years and remained with an average of around 45 then he would have to be seriously considered for that team.

[Marcuss]

He got MOTS against SA didn't he?

Glovework these days in comparison with at the time of his debut is absolutely night and day

[Prince EWS]

Yeah his glovework is what makes him so under-rated. One of the better pure glovemen going around in international cricket and that's before we even get to the fact that he averages 45 with the bat. Entire series will go by without him missing a chance; the criticism of his wicket keeping these days is completely unfounded.

I know it'll make a few traditionalists gasp but IMO if you want to pick Botham in England's ATXI then Prior is a must.

[Agent Nationaux]

Best Keeper batsman in the world atm.

[Neil Pickup]

Averaging 50+ since the summer of 2010 and the Pakistan series, too.

Has to be in the conversation for the ATXI alongside Ames and Knott.

[The Sean]

Prior's glovework really has improved immeasurably - he's the complete package now and has been for a while. A hugely valuable cricketer.

As a pure gloveman there are a few England 'keepers I'd still have ahead of him - Knott, Evans, Taylor, Russell, Strudwick perhaps - but it's not as though the gap is a gaping chasm, while with the bat he now stands above all IMO, Ames included.

As an overall package I still can't pick him ahead of Knotty for an All Time England XI, but there's a pretty compelling case to be made that he's now next in line - and his best may actually be yet to come.

[Cabinet96]

Prior's a real possibility if you want Botham in your ATG side. To have Botham and Knott at 6 and 7 just leaves England's batting incredibly weak compared to sides like Australia, who'll have Gilchrist and some middle order gun in there.

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Yeah his glovework is what makes him so under-rated. One of the better pure glovemen going around in international cricket and that's before we even get to the fact that he averages 45 with the bat. Entire series will go by without him missing a chance; the criticism of his wicket keeping these days is completely unfounded.

I know it'll make a few traditionalists gasp but IMO if you want to pick Botham in England's ATXI then Prior is a must.

Yeah his glovework never seems to get the credit it deserves. He's not perfect standing up, but I can only recall a couple of drops standing back in the last few years, both were down the leg side and tough chances. I'd say he's probably the second best gloveman in international cricket, behind PJ.

I can't remember who it was, think it was either Dan or NUFAN, but I remember them saying in the ATG thread that there seems to be a disproportionate rating of a keepers gloveowork to their batting. I.e. the better batter the keeper is, the lower their keeping is rated as a result. I fully agree.

[Marcuss]

Interesting that in our CW ATG XI exercise Knott and Ames made the A and B XIs respectively...
Prior was in the P XI behind Russel, Blackham, Evans, Marsh, Stewart, Waite, Dujon, Healy, Engineer, Tallon, Flower, Lindsay, Walcott

[The Sean]

Originally Posted by Marcuss

Interesting that in our CW ATG XI exercise Knott and Ames made the A and B XIs respectively...
Prior was in the P XI behind Russel, Blackham, Evans, Marsh, Stewart, Waite, Dujon, Healy, Engineer, Tallon, Flower, Lindsay, Walcott

I find wicketkeepers can be quite difficult to select in those kind of ATG teams, because while I generally try to assess them by the overall value they bring to the team, I do sometimes find myself shoehorning them in dependent on balance of the rest of the team - i.e. if the batting is exceptionally strong I am more likely to go with a great gloveman and worry less about his batting, and likewise I'm prepared to sacrifice an element of glovework for batting quality if the team needs it. Thus the team they appear in isn't always an accurate reflection of how I rank them as cricketers.

It's unfair on 'keepers to assess them like that, I know, and I really should stop.

[Burgey]

The improvement in Prior's glove work must give some hope to the likes of Matthew Wade.

I hope so, because I don't have much hope for Wade as a keeper, personally.