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Thread: Match Winning Batsmen in Test Cricket

  1. #31
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    Both are obviously important, but if you gave a captain a choice between a world-class bowling attack and a world-class batting lineup and to only pick one of them, he'd want the bowling attack I reckon.
    Last edited by Satyanash89; 24-04-2013 at 01:47 PM.

  2. #32
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    I would.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  3. #33
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    It is not always easy to determine whether a batsman's innings was significant in winning the match. Winning a Test match is generally a team effort and imo it is bowlers who play akey role in winning Test matches most of the time. So I am taking this question as the list of batsmen who did their bit when their skills were most needed more frequently than others.

    Of the batsmen that I have seen, these are the ones that contributed their bit against tough attacks or in situations that I expected them to do so with a decent frequency. Just going by my visual memory and not by stats.

    Lara
    Waugh brothers
    Gooch
    Viv Richards
    Border
    Gower

  4. #34
    School Boy/Girl Captain Гурин's Avatar
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    Ian Bell. Average of 62 in won games and 28 in lost ones (54 in draws)! And this doesn't take into account those wonderful rearguards of his.

    When he's on song, England is unbeatable.

    (compare to the woeful numbers of Pietersen: 61 in W, 28 in L, 56 in D. One less in wins, 2 more in useless draws. Pathetic)
    It's the pitch, stupid.


  5. #35
    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    Trumper's stats are interesting, averaged 40+ in a win or loss, averaged 23 in a draw.
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. A.C Gilchrist 7. Imran Khan 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  6. #36
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    [QUOTE=Г(compare to the woeful numbers of Pietersen: 61 in W, 28 in L, 56 in D. One less in wins, 2 more in useless draws. Pathetic)[/QUOTE]

    It's not always useless to score runs in draws, remember Headingly against SA when his hundred propped up England's first innings before the game was lost to rain. Steyn might have ripped through the batting had he not come in and made those runs.

    Edit: Oh ad how could I forget the oval test of 2005?
    RIP Phillip Hughes (1988-2014)

  7. #37
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Гурин View Post
    Ian Bell. Average of 62 in won games and 28 in lost ones (54 in draws)! And this doesn't take into account those wonderful rearguards of his.

    When he's on song, England is unbeatable.

    (compare to the woeful numbers of Pietersen: 61 in W, 28 in L, 56 in D. One less in wins, 2 more in useless draws. Pathetic)
    The old knock on Bell - which may apply to others - is that he scores big when someone else also does. He isn't the guy to hold an innings together but a guy who tons up in easy conditions when someone else is also scoring heavily.

    EDIT - a quick look shows that Bell was the only centurian in England's innings on 4 of 17 occasions whereas KP was the only man to score a hundred in the inning almost 3 times (I lost count, it is about 11 or 12 times) that number in 22 innings.
    Last edited by Goughy; 24-04-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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  8. #38
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Someone not named: Sehwag. When he was having a good match you could basically say goodbye to it. He scored at a pace which would turn the match on its head. Same goes to Gilchrist and Viv.
    ★★★★★

  9. #39
    School Boy/Girl Captain cricmahanty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by complan View Post
    So batsmen belonging to teams with strong bowling attacks are kind of at a disadvantage here. (I'm thinking specifically of the West Indies 70s-80s, and Australia 2000s).
    True. But conversely, batsmen belonging to teams with mediocre bowling attacks are also at a similar wavelength of disadvantage here. I could count you so many champion test knocks coming from the likes of Gavaskar and Tendulkar that didn't end up in a victory cause because they weren't assisted by a potent bowling attack or were lone-hands with the other batsmen faltering around them.

    So, both the extremes probably level out.

    Batting average in winning causes could be one metric that we could use but I doubt if that would give us a complete picture either. From the top off my head, I'd rate Waugh, Dravid, Ponting, Kallis, Smith, Pietersen as pretty good match-winners with the bat.

    People like Laxman, Amla, Sehwag deserve a notable mention too.

  10. #40
    School Boy/Girl Captain Гурин's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    The old knock on Bell - which may apply to others - is that he scores big when someone else also does. He isn't the guy to hold an innings together but a guy who tons up in easy conditions when someone else is also scoring heavily.

    EDIT - a quick look shows that Bell was the only centurian in England's innings on 4 of 17 occasions whereas KP was the only man to score a hundred in the inning almost 3 times (I lost count, it is about 11 or 12 times) that number in 22 innings.
    You know, others to score a hundred is not really something you can control as a batsman. And, if Bell has filled his shoes when others did, how come KP has not in those innings? I don't think he decided that 'Ow this track is easy, let's get out, somebody else will score here'. Eventually, as we have seen, their stats are pretty similar.

    Anyway that's just me, I never really believed in these things such as clutchness*. I put it this way, if cricket was an open market game (which, thank God, is not, let me be clear about this) and I was the GM of some franchise, I'd be extremely happy to get Bell at a much lower price (60%? You know, at the Top End increases are exponential) than KP, extremely good player, but one which I believe would have an exaggerately inflated price due to reputation. Then, if others disagree with me... fine. I got mine, you got yours.


    *which really helps me as a player also. I go and play my best game, whatever the situation. If the bowler beats me, good for him, he was better. But pressure is for ignorant wimps.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    1. Tendulkar
    He is great but India loses the match about 60 to 70 percent of the times he scores a hundred.For me, he is a great batsman for sure but not a match winner.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    He is great but India loses the match about 60 to 70 percent of the times he scores a hundred.For me, he is a great batsman for sure but not a match winner.
    You do realize that he has scored 20 centuries in Indian victories, and only 11 in defeats right? The way people pull BS statistics out of nowhere is just astounding

  13. #43
    State Vice-Captain akilana's Avatar
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    The ability to win matches is directly proportional to how good a batsman one is. So when you ranked the batsmen in order of their greatness then you have a list of match winners.

    Don
    Sachin
    The rest

  14. #44
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    You know that when Bell is making runs, you are in trouble as an opposition.

    But, you don't feel that Bell making runs is the direct reason that you're in strife. There are things that have happened before that to lead to your demise.

  15. #45
    School Boy/Girl Captain Гурин's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    You know that when Bell is making runs, you are in trouble as an opposition.

    But, you don't feel that Bell making runs is the direct reason that you're in strife. There are things that have happened before that to lead to your demise.
    Mah. If you say so.

    Funny game, cricket. You can singlehandedly win a game, but you can't singlehandedly lose a game* (if you lose, everybody else got hit for runs and everybody else got out). You get a duck? There's still plenty of bats around you, so no big deal unless they also fail.


    *yes, not even Kamran Akmal. Pakistan couldn't chase 120, if memory serves me right.

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