Chuckers

[Agent Nationaux]

We all knew what TC was saying.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

We all knew what TC was saying.

Congratulations.
He said "cricket has defined bowling as hurling a ball with a straight arm." - which is completely wrong.

 

[Top_Cat]

Jesus.

Law 24 (No ball) - Laws - Laws of Cricket - Laws & Spirit - Lord's

3. Definition of fair delivery - the arm
A ball is fairly delivered in respect of the arm if, once the bowler’s arm has reached the level of the shoulder in the delivery swing, the elbow joint is not straightened partially or completely from that point until the ball has left the hand. This definition shall not debar a bowler from flexing or rotating the wrist in the delivery swing.

/thread.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

So you post something that proves that what you said was wrong and then close up - good thinking.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yep, you're absolutely correct. Can we move on now?

 

[harsh.ag]

Why is this thread being allowed to go on? Thought hate threads were beneath this forum.

 

[smash84]

Yep, you're absolutely correct. Can we move on now?

haha TC you could have agreed with her earlier and put a stop to this

 

[Himannv]

Have to laugh at how something like this makes someones "blood boil".

 

[smash84]

first world problems

 

[angad]

I think Pragyan Ojha also chucks.

 

[benchmark00]

God, who left the cage door open?

 

[Fusion]

If anyone wants to have a legitimate discussion about a bowler’s action, then they are welcome to debate it in this thread. We’ll ask, though, to cut out the troll posts. We’ve already taken action on that count in this thread and will do so again if it continues.

 

[Furball]

I've always found Harbhajan's long sleeves to be suspect.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Seventy three posts before one from me.

I'm not the last angry man any longer.

The spinelessness of the authorities in tackling this is what's most tiresome. It's one of the sport's most basic tenets that the ball is delivered by means of bowling not throwing yet, to all intents and purposes, it's now ignored.

The really galling thing is that everyone who watches cricket semi-seriously & who doesn't have an axe to grind knows what a chuck looks like, yet the authorties insist on calling them metal-headed, flat-surfaced, wooden-handled earth displacement utensils.

 

[Himannv]

I've always found Harbhajan's long sleeves to be suspect.

Very suspicious of all blokes who have long sleeves. This sort of thing is only acceptable if its freezing.

 

[Viscount Tom]

Seventy three posts before one from me.

I'm not the last angry man any longer.

The spinelessness of the authorities in tackling this is what's most tiresome. It's one of the sport's most basic tenets that the ball is delivered by means of bowling not throwing yet, to all intents and purposes, it's now ignored.

The really galling thing is that everyone who watches cricket semi-seriously & who doesn't have an axe to grind knows what a chuck looks like, yet the authorties insist on calling them metal-headed, flat-surfaced, wooden-handled earth displacement utensils.

Honestly disappointed it took you so long to get here.

 

[harsh.ag]

Seventy three posts before one from me.

I'm not the last angry man any longer.

The spinelessness of the authorities in tackling this is what's most tiresome. It's one of the sport's most basic tenets that the ball is delivered by means of bowling not throwing yet, to all intents and purposes, it's now ignored.

The really galling thing is that everyone who watches cricket semi-seriously & who doesn't have an axe to grind knows what a chuck looks like, yet the authorties insist on calling them metal-headed, flat-surfaced, wooden-handled earth displacement utensils.

Could you tell me how McGrath, and other bowlers like him, who do not look like chuckers but still bend their elbow beyond 12-15 degrees, are supposed to be treated in relation to the 'obvious' chuckers?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Could you tell me how McGrath, and other bowlers like him, who do not look like chuckers but still bend their elbow beyond 12-15 degrees, are supposed to be treated in relation to the 'obvious' chuckers?

Two points here.

1) There's no solid evidence that they did. The whole "everyone chucks bar Sarwan" idea was seeded from that original study that was done at a Champions Trophy back in the day. None of the bowlers who supposedly exceeded the (then) tolerance thresholds were named in this (Google it to check), yet it's somehow became a truism that chaps with beuatiful, orthodox actions like McGrath and Pollock were amongst them.

& that's apart from the simple fact that it's impossible to measure elbow flexion during match situations with any meaningful degree of accuracy even now, much less a decade ago.

2) I refer you to my previous answer:

The really galling thing is that everyone who watches cricket semi-seriously & who doesn't have an axe to grind knows what a chuck looks like

& McGrath's deliveries weren't one.

 

[harsh.ag]

Two points here.

1) There's no solid evidence that they did. The whole "everyone chucks bar Sarwan" idea was seeded from that original study that was done at a Champions Trophy back in the day. None of the bowlers who supposedly exceeded the (then) tolerance thresholds were named in this (Google it to check), yet it's somehow became a truism that chaps with beuatiful, orthodox actions like McGrath and Pollock were amongst them.

& that's apart from the simple fact that it's impossible to measure elbow flexion during match situations with any meaningful degree of accuracy even now, much less a decade ago.

2) I refer you to my previous answer:



& McGrath's deliveries weren't one.

Cricinfo - Most Bowlers Have Some Degree of Flexion

Cricinfo - Trust Science, Not Your Eyes

Now quoting from another website, pakpassion.net:

WHAT IS A CHUCK?

ICC Laws 24.2 and 24.3 state that for a delivery to be legal the ball must not be thrown. Once the bowler’s arm has reached the level of the shoulder in the delivery swing, the elbow joint cannot be straightened from that point until the ball has left the hand. This does not, however, prevent a bowler from flexing or rotating his wrist in the delivery swing.

Alec Stewart was talking about this today and explained it in a way which meant my understanding wasn't quite correct. All these still shots of side of pictures are useless as the ICC allows 15 degrees of straightening of the elbow. So if a bowlers elbow goes from 20 to 10 degrees, whilst appearing bent, it only straightens 10 degrees and hence legal.

That's just the basic rule of chucking - You can bowl with your wrist touching your shoulder if you want to as long as you don't straighten your arm after your wrist has gone above your shoulder and before the ball is released.

Chucking is when you straighten your arm (15 degrees or more in modern laws). One photo is very misleading but two will often do the job.

So u can't judge if someone's chucking by a photo, you'll need to have a (slo-mo) video. So if my arm starts at 45 degrees and when I release it is still at 45 deg, it's not chucking.

Ajmal's arm starts at around 35 degrees, it is thought.

____________

The difference between bowling and throwing is the motion at your elbow joint. If there's no movement there (we'll come to 15° later), you are most likely bowling (under-arm or over-arm). So your bowling speed is then dependent mostly on your own momentum, the shoulder movement and the wrists.

So yes, a single picture doesn't mean anything. A bowler can have his arm bent 90° at the elbow and can still bowl a legal delivery, if he doesn't straighten his arms during the delivery action. This, by the way, is how the ICC rules have always been.

The recent change (or rather addition) to the rule was that bowlers were allowed 15° of movement at the elbow during the bowling stride. So while bowling (round-arm or under-arm) once your arm reaches parallel to your shoulders, from that point on, it can move only 15° at the elbow. If your arm was bent by 90° at the start, then you can either straighten it to 75° or bend it inwards to 105°. A solitary photo from such a delivery stride will look ridiculous, but it'll be a legal delivery within the rules of the game.

So over-all statement like 'bowling with bent arms' means absolutely nothing. A bent arm is not what makes a throw different from bowling.

 

[benchmark00]

Never, ever quote pakpassion.