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Best After The Don

Best After the Don

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
NUFAN

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
It almost seems as though its about time we conduct a weldone (think it was him) like thread where we vote publicly on the best batsman, then vote on the second best bat and so on and on and on until we get to say Mark Waugh.

I find it hard to nominate the best after Don as a number of bats have positive reasons to vote for them and if you look close enough, negatives.
 
Coronis

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
NUFAN said:
It almost seems as though its about time we conduct a weldone (think it was him) like thread where we vote publicly on the best batsman, then vote on the second best bat and so on and on and on until we get to say Mark Waugh.

I find it hard to nominate the best after Don as a number of bats have positive reasons to vote for them and if you look close enough, negatives.
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Thats a lot of batsmen.
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
NUFAN said:
I find it hard to nominate the best after Don as a number of bats have positive reasons to vote for them and if you look close enough, negatives.
Click to expand...
Thought it'd be interesting to list any "weaknesses" these guys had (or supposedly had). Feel free to add, or tell me I'm wrong...


Jack Hobbs- played in a very batsman friendly era.
Wally Hammond-
George Headley- played against weakened sides.
Len Hutton
Garry Sobers- batted down the order
Sunil Gavaskar- rated highly against the WIs, but it's perhaps a bit of a myth, as he didn't get extensively tested against the 4 quicks.
Graeme Pollock- not many tests
Greg Chappell-
Barry Richards- lack of tests
Viv Richards-
Sachin Tendulkar-
Brian Lara-
Ricky Ponting- susceptible to quality spin
Jacques Kallis-
W.G. Grace- hard to judge early era
 
Satyanash89

Satyanash89

Banned
Monk said:
Ricky Ponting- susceptible to quality spin
Click to expand...
Definitely disagree with that. He just had a bit of a mental block against Harbhajan imo. He handled Murali auperbly on several occasions. Still find it impossible to come up with a solid reason why Ponting failed time and time again in India, it's always baffled me.
 
L Trumper

L Trumper

State Regular
My additions to your list:

Monk said:
Thought it'd be interesting to list any "weaknesses" these guys had (or supposedly had). Feel free to add, or tell me I'm wrong...
Click to expand...
Jack Hobbs- played in a very batsman friendly era. [Not really, before WW1 he was the only one who averaged around 55, while no one else crossed 45]

Wally Hammond- []

George Headley- played against weakened sides.

Len Hutton

Garry Sobers- batted down the order [Not really, he batted even better at 3 & 4. The team preferred him at down the order]

Sunil Gavaskar- rated highly against the WIs, but it's perhaps a bit of a myth, as he didn't get extensively tested against the 4 quicks. [Agree]

Graeme Pollock- not many tests

Greg Chappell-

Barry Richards- lack of tests

Viv Richards-

Sachin Tendulkar-

Brian Lara- [In the middle of his career he had a horrible slump, in the middle of which he produced the greatest batting performance of modern times : ****ing magnificent enigma, Also struggled against extreme pace especially against two Ws, Donald]

Ricky Ponting- susceptible to quality spin [8 years of awesomeness surrounded by 4 years of mediocrity at start and at end of the career]

Jacques Kallis- [Great batsman, but it is telling that when the team is at their best as in 2008, or as in 2011 onwards : the key batsman were Smith (2008) and Amla, ABDV (2011 + ). ]

W.G. Grace- hard to judge early era [Best by a long distance during his time]
 
watson

watson

Banned
Jack Hobbs- played in a very batsman friendly era that was short of quality fast bowlers. That is, Gregory and McDonald only
Wally Hammond- See Hobbs
George Headley- played against weakened sides.
Len Hutton - defence orientated. Rarely went on the attack.
Garry Sobers- batted down the order
Sunil Gavaskar- rated highly against the WIs, but it's perhaps a bit of a myth, as he didn't get extensively tested against the 4 quicks.
Graeme Pollock- not many tests
Greg Chappell- None
Barry Richards- lack of tests
Viv Richards- None
Sachin Tendulkar- Yet to dominate a series?
Brian Lara- None
Ricky Ponting- susceptible to quality spin
Jacques Kallis- Yet to dominate a series?
W.G. Grace- hard to judge early era
 
NUFAN

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Coronis said:
Thats a lot of batsmen.
Click to expand...
Under 100. Do 2 a day and we've got it finished before his birthday.

watson said:
Jack Hobbs- played in a very batsman friendly era that was short of quality fast bowlers. That is, Gregory and McDonald only
Wally Hammond- See Hobbs
George Headley- played against weakened sides.
Len Hutton - defence orientated. Rarely went on the attack.
Garry Sobers- batted down the order
Sunil Gavaskar- rated highly against the WIs, but it's perhaps a bit of a myth, as he didn't get extensively tested against the 4 quicks.
Graeme Pollock- not many tests
Greg Chappell- None
Barry Richards- lack of tests
Viv Richards- None
Sachin Tendulkar- Yet to dominate a series?
Brian Lara- None
Ricky Ponting- susceptible to quality spin
Jacques Kallis- Yet to dominate a series?
W.G. Grace- hard to judge early era
Click to expand...
Kallis has dominated series for sure.
 
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NUFAN

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Prince EWS said:
I reckon I could name 100 better batsmen I thought were better than Mark Waugh.
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Do it, I dare you, but it would be debatable and not really the point. What team did Waugh make in the World Game last year? I know his brilliant fielding and bit of off spin helped him.
 
Satyanash89

Satyanash89

Banned
watson said:
Jack Hobbs- played in a very batsman friendly era that was short of quality fast bowlers. That is, Gregory and McDonald only
Wally Hammond- See Hobbs
George Headley- played against weakened sides.
Len Hutton - defence orientated. Rarely went on the attack.
Garry Sobers- batted down the order
Sunil Gavaskar- rated highly against the WIs, but it's perhaps a bit of a myth, as he didn't get extensively tested against the 4 quicks.
Graeme Pollock- not many tests
Greg Chappell- None
Barry Richards- lack of tests
Viv Richards- None
Sachin Tendulkar- Yet to dominate a series?
Brian Lara- None
Ricky Ponting- susceptible to quality spin
Jacques Kallis- Yet to dominate a series?
W.G. Grace- hard to judge early era
Click to expand...
Hammond and Hobbs- batsman friendly era, though that's hardly a criticism.. Just the circumstances ...
Same for Headley facing weak attacks
Hutton - Seemed to have been a more defensive minded batsman, so that is an ever so slight negative when compared to other ATGs
Gavaskar- Legendary figure in my childhood but his exploits against WI are so overrated it's not funny. Against the famous quartet he did no better than others in the era. The Hutton criticism probably applies here too.

Chappell- More I think about his record, the more complete it seems. Don't know if he's actually dominated a series, might have to do some research

B. Richards and Pollock obviously didn't ay enough.

Viv Richards - probably struggled against quality spin more than Ponting tbh... Still a great player of spin obviously

Love Lara, but he had a spell of around 5 years in the late 90s where he was ridiculously inconsistent. Long patches of mediocrity with absolute genius sprinkled in here and there. He slump was so bad his average sipped to 47 at one point iirc

Sachin dominating a series? 1998 vs Australia probably the closest one.. Scored two of his best hundreds at a great pace against Warne.

Kallis- Hardly any truly memorable awe inspiring knocks. I rate him very highly but I'm trying very very hard to remember the kind of amazing knocks Lara, Ponting, Sachin have played over the years and very few come to mind that truly measure up.
 
watson

watson

Banned
Spikey said:
well sachin clearly dominated HowSTAT! Player Progressive Batting

and kallis did have that series against the wi when he scored 4 tons in 4 matches. and you know, the kallisball series HowSTAT! Player Progressive Batting
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Sachin had an impressive list of knocks in the 3 Test series for sure. However, Kasprowicz appears to be the 'spearhead', so where was Glenn McGrath at the time?

Australia in India: Feb - Mar 1998

As for Kallis' 2010-11 series against India - well, Sreenath et al were bowling pies at the time.
 
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Coronis

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
watson said:
Jack Hobbs- played in a very batsman friendly era that was short of quality fast bowlers. That is, Gregory and McDonald only
Wally Hammond- See Hobbs
George Headley- played against weakened sides.
Len Hutton - defence orientated. Rarely went on the attack.
Garry Sobers- batted down the order
Sunil Gavaskar- rated highly against the WIs, but it's perhaps a bit of a myth, as he didn't get extensively tested against the 4 quicks.
Graeme Pollock- not many tests
Greg Chappell- None
Barry Richards- lack of tests
Viv Richards- None
Sachin Tendulkar- Yet to dominate a series?
Brian Lara- None
Ricky Ponting- susceptible to quality spin
Jacques Kallis- Yet to dominate a series?
W.G. Grace- hard to judge early era
Click to expand...
Richards really dropped off towards the end of his career. You can't honestly say Lara has no faults, he was remarkably inconsistent at times. Gotta agree about Chappell though. Never heard anything bad about his batting.
 
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akilana

akilana

International 12th Man
Kallis's best was the one against england in 2004/2005. He hit 3 tons in 4 tests. All were against an attack that went on to win the ashes few months later.
 
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watson

watson

Banned
Coronis said:
Richards really dropped off towards the end of his career. You can't honestly say Lara has no faults, he was remarkably inconsistent at times. Gotta agree about Chappell though. Never heard anything bad about his batting.
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In the following study (written 2009) Brian Lara has a very similar 'Consistency Index'/Standard Deviation to Steve Waugh, and is only marginally worse than Tendulkar and Kallis.

Blogs: A consistency index for batsmen | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

From what I can gather Brian Lara's 'inconsistency' has been exaggerated.
 
Satyanash89

Satyanash89

Banned
watson said:
In the following study (written 2009) Brian Lara has a very similar 'Consistency Index'/Standard Deviation to Steve Waugh, and is only marginally worse than Tendulkar and Kallis.

Blogs: A consistency index for batsmen | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

From what I can gather Brian Lara's 'inconsistency' has been exaggerated.
Click to expand...
I don't know much about consistency indexes and what not, but i do know that between 1997 to late 2001, Lara swung wildly between unparalleled genius and plain mediocrity.

Between November 1996 and November 2001 (when he plundered Murali and co in Sri Lanka), Lara played 11 test series and apart from THAT series against Australia averaged 50+ only once. So in that 6 year period, Lara produced two of the best series performances maybe ever, but did pretty much nothing else worth noting.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

His average, which was over 60 in 1996, had dropped to 47 by late 2001. Thats as inconsistent as it gets for a batsman of his greatness.
 
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smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
Satyanash89 said:
I don't know much about consistency indexes and what not, but i do know that between 1997 to late 2001, Lara swung wildly between unparalleled genius and plain mediocrity.

Between November 1996 and November 2001 (when he plundered Murali and co in Sri Lanka), Lara played 11 test series and apart from THAT series against Australia averaged 50+ only once. So in that 6 year period, Lara produced two of the best series performances maybe ever, but did pretty much nothing else worth noting.

His average, which was over 60 in 1996, had dropped to 47 by late 2001. Thats as inconsistent as it gets for a batsman of his greatness.
Click to expand...
quite awta
 
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