View Poll Results: Single biggest contributing factor to Australia's demise?

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  • Preoccupation with t20 cricket e.g. Big bash and IPL contracts

    3 8.11%
  • Poor management by ACB e.g not backing certain players/poor team selections/overall poor management

    10 27.03%
  • Losing Mcgrath and Warne simultaneously i.e. two of the greatest ever bowlers to have played

    12 32.43%
  • Failure of old selection comittee to groom young ready made replacements

    12 32.43%
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Thread: What has been the single biggest contributing factor to Australia's demise?

  1. #31
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    We have alot of options in pace bowling atm but very few 1st choices. The best are Harris and Pattinson but it wouldn't surprise if Harris never plays a test again and Pattinson hasn't got to the end of a season yet. They are promising but as far as resilience and performance they don't, as a group, come near the golden generation headed by McGrath, Gillespie and supported by Bichel and Kasper.

  2. #32
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Haha yeah indeed. Worst poll.

    Australia don't have a god given right to the best team in the world and automatically assume there have been major managerial blunders just because they aren't.

    The players Australia have at the moment just aren't as good as the ones they had 10 years ago, or as good as the ones in a couple of the other Test sides. There doesn't need to be an inquest into why; that's international sport.
    Yep.

    Can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

    That's not to say there aren't ways to improve, but the players Australia have are the players Australia have.
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    Kohli. Do something in test cricket for once please.

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  3. #33
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Lack of good batting cattle.

    /thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Same. An option is needed "The players we have now aren't as good as the ones we used to have". Easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Haha yeah indeed. Worst poll.

    Australia don't have a god given right to the best team in the world and automatically assume there have been major managerial blunders just because they aren't.

    The players Australia have at the moment just aren't as good as the ones they had 10 years ago, or as good as the ones in a couple of the other Test sides. There doesn't need to be an inquest into why; that's international sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Yep.

    Can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

    That's not to say there aren't ways to improve, but the players Australia have are the players Australia have.
    The players not being as good as they were tails with my point about not utilising the extant resources properly.

    The selection panel still picks its test XI & squads like it's 2006. Currently I don't think it's politic to ignore a player's claims just because they're old, a cock, a lardo, have a tendancy to throttle their captain or prefer wine to beer or whatever.
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  4. #34
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    Katich has retired from Australian first class cricket.

    Hodge has retired from first class cricket and wasn't the world saver people make him out to be. Has big technical flaws on wickets with any life in them but cashes in on roads.

    Rogers is not that good. He is very limited and Cowan is the better opening option, and IMO Cowan shouldn't even be in the team aws. He's a state cricketer.

    Reckon if we dig up Victor Trumper we could prop him up Weekend at Bernies style also.
    Last edited by benchmark00; 08-03-2013 at 09:00 PM.


  5. #35
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Oh, come on. Katich's and Hodge's retirements were at the very least partly attributable to their perception they had Buckley's of getting a recall. Cheaty's made a few comments about making a comeback of late now he thinks he might get a go and the fact Katich can be arsed to spend several months away from his young family playing CC suggests he hasn't lost his appetite for the longer formats entirely.

    As for Rogers, well frankly I'm giving a bloke who averages 50+ in England a go ahead of Hughes, Cowan & Khawaja, who all also define limited and don't. Rogers grinds. Scores runs. & doesn't have a glaring minus that might make the selectors given him a swerve like Hussey jr's issues with the short ball.

  6. #36
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    The players not being as good as they were tails with my point about not utilising the extant resources properly.

    The selection panel still picks its test XI & squads like it's 2006. Currently I don't think it's politic to ignore a player's claims just because they're old, a cock, a lardo, have a tendancy to throttle their captain or prefer wine to beer or whatever.
    Yeah look, Brad Hodge is 38 and hasn't played a First Class game since 2009. I don't know why he keeps coming up.

    Katich was discarded too quickly and it was a move I criticised quite heavily but his Sheffield Shield form since that time certainly hasn't indicated he'd have been a team-changing player. He too is 38 and retired now.

    Which basically brings it back to the fact that whenever someone talks about Australia declining or the lack of batting talent, you bring up Chris Rogers and cry blue murder as if there are six or seven blokes who are clearly Test class that the selectors are ignoring based on his case. Well I've always been a fan of Chris Rogers myself - moreso than the vast majority of the country - but he does have a strange technique and a strange way of going about his cricket in general, so there's absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that he'd be a Test standard option or better than the blokes who are being picked.

    You can complain until you're blue in the face and bring up the names of retired players to make your case look stronger but it's not even close to being the obvious misjustice you're making it out to be; he certainly IMO would've struggled greatly in India, like the rest of our top order have. He was unlucky not to play more than the one Test for Australia and I think he's *probably* still one of our best six batsmen, but that opinion is not a commonly held one in this country and it's not just because Rogers is outspoken either; it's because the standard of his batsmanship is not rated as highly here as it is in your head.

    Fact is, if Rogers had actually been in the side for the last seven years he'd almost certainly be showing the same signs of decline he's been showing domestically for the last couple of seasons and be thinking about hanging up the boots anyway.

    These blokes are yesterday's heroes. Maybe we should've picked them two years ago to eek something out of them; it was actually something I was very much in favour of at the time, but it's over now. It's not just that they're old; two of them aren't playing anymore and one isn't as good as he was anyway. If they'd had long Test careers for Australia they'd be coming to an end now regardless. The point Stephen makes is spot on - we've had a generation of very talented young batsmen come through and just not kick on as hoped. They're not as good as the players we've had previously, or the players in the best couple of Test sides. And that's sport; it happens sometimes.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 08-03-2013 at 09:21 PM.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Oh, come on. Katich's and Hodge's retirements were at the very least partly attributable to their perception they had Buckley's of getting a recall. Cheaty's made a few comments about making a comeback of late now he thinks he might get a go and the fact Katich can be arsed to spend several months away from his young family playing CC suggests he hasn't lost his appetite for the longer formats entirely.

    As for Rogers, well frankly I'm giving a bloke who averages 50+ in England a go ahead of Hughes, Cowan & Khawaja, who all also define limited and don't. Rogers grinds. Scores runs. & doesn't have a glaring minus that might make the selectors given him a swerve like Hussey jr's issues with the short ball.
    So what do you want the selectors to do with Katich and Hodge (who has just as many glaring problems as David Hussey)? They don't play first class cricket in this country ffs. I reckon Matthew Hayden would probably still be better than Cowan, but he doesn't play either.

    Brumbeh it's weird that you have that many problems with Hughes but not with Rogers, hardly an oil painting to look at. Sometimes you have to look beneath the raw numbers.

  8. #38
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Getting very close to tl;dr territory there, especially at just gone 4am.

    The obvious question to ask is "Is the current squad up to it?". If it's not (and it isn't) one has to look at other options. Of course it isn't ideal to go back to blokes in their late 30s but if necessity is the mother or invention then desperation is its grandparent.

  9. #39
    State Regular L Trumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Getting very close to tl;dr territory there, especially at just gone 4am.

    The obvious question to ask is "Is the current squad up to it?". If it's not (and it isn't) one has to look at other options. Of course it isn't ideal to go back to blokes in their late 30s but if necessity is the mother or invention then desperation is its grandparent.
    They are playing reasonably well for the last 18 months. Why exactly do they need to get rid of all these players? Just because of one poor series in India? and then recall 35-40 olds back?

  10. #40
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Well I'll tell you one thing - the answer to the poll question definitely isn't "Not picking Chris Rogers" ....

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Trumper View Post
    They are playing reasonably well for the last 18 months. Why exactly do they need to get rid of all these players? Just because of one poor series in India? and then recall 35-40 olds back?
    Exactly, why pick players who won't do much better, and probably do worse, on top of the fact they won't be there in 18 months time max. Not doing anyone any good.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Australia's biggest problem is that the current generation of mid-late 20s batsmen are all gash. For one reason or another, the likes of Ferguson, Marsh, Pomersbach and North have all failed to live up to expectation. Imagine if Marsh and Ferguson had have lived up to what their natural talents suggested that they could have achieved and Jaques had not had his back injury. We'd have a couple of batsmen entering their prime after a couple of years in the squad, a 45+ averaging opener who was nearing the end of his career and Clarke in the middle order. Sure, we still wouldn't be up to the standard that we were in the past, but it's really the failures of the administration to get the best out of what should be the current generation of batsmen that's the issue.

    Our team would look a whole lot better if this was the shape of it:

    Jaques^
    Warner
    Marsh*
    Ferguson*
    Clarke
    Watson
    Wade
    4 bowlers+

    ^If Jaques hadn't gotten injured and was still performing at or near the level he was before his back injury
    *If these two had have kicked on to become the 45 averaging batsmen that they very well could have been
    +We would still be weak in the spin department, but our quicks have been as good as, if not better than the fast bowling stocks we had during the 95-07 era.

    Hughes would have been pounding down the door and we'd all be rather optimistic about the future of the Australian team right now.
    I get your point I really do but... where would Ponting and Hussey have fit into the above team? Something would have changed for sure, like Warner not getting the same chances.
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  13. #43
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    So what do you want the selectors to do with Katich and Hodge (who has just as many glaring problems as David Hussey)? They don't play first class cricket in this country ffs. I reckon Matthew Hayden would probably still be better than Cowan, but he doesn't play either.

    Brumbeh it's weird that you have that many problems with Hughes but not with Rogers, hardly an oil painting to look at. Sometimes you have to look beneath the raw numbers.
    If Hughes hadn't have had a pretty extended crack at tests I'd be advocating his inclusion too, in all likelihood.

    I don't like watching him much (I'll be honest and say I'm not a massive fan of Cook's batting either, if it comes to that) but runs cancel any aesthetic considerations every single time.

    Trouble is that he has. I'm from the Kingdom of blokes with great FC records not making the step up to tests and there must be an inkling Hughes belongs with the Ramprakashes and Hicks of the world by now.

  14. #44
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    Yeah, I don't get this whole desperate search for why Australia aren't the best team in the world at the moment. All sides go through periods where they don't produce as many high class players as they have before, and if that coincides with other countries going through purple patches of loads of talented players, then they'll fall behind them in the rankings. Sure there are ways you could improve Australian cricket at the moment, but if people think there is a quick solution which will make them indisputably the best side in the world at the moment, they're kidding themselves. The reason they're not the best at the moment goes all the way back to club cricket at junior level.

  15. #45
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    Other teams getting better. In professional sport the margins are so small that a small demise and a corresponding small improvement in opposition wipes away any advantage.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits

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