View Poll Results: Who is the worst wicket keeper to play 75 Tests as designated keeper?

Voters
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  • MV Boucher (ICC/SA)

    3 10.34%
  • IA Healy (Aus)

    1 3.45%
  • AC Gilchrist (Aus)

    0 0%
  • RW Marsh (Aus)

    0 0%
  • APE Knott (Eng)

    1 3.45%
  • TG Evans (Eng)

    1 3.45%
  • SMH Kirmani (India)

    2 6.90%
  • AJ Stewart (Eng)

    5 17.24%
  • Wasim Bari (Pak)

    0 0%
  • PJL Dujon (WI)

    1 3.45%
  • MS Dhoni (India)

    15 51.72%
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Thread: Who is the worst wicket keeper to play 75 Tests as designated keeper

  1. #46
    U19 Debutant Biryani Pillow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    He was 10 times the keeper Stewart was.
    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    Russell was an awesome keeper. There have been other instances in the game of a better keeper being excluded in favour af a batsman keeper but never was a keeper of the caliber of Russell treated as shabbily and never was the difference between the protagonists more glaring. This is why Stewart gets so much bad press for his keeping - Russell's class.

    Rubbish.

    There was no huge gap between (I think Atherton is of a similar view).

    Russell's work was frequently untidy and his drops/misses glossed over.

    Stewart success rate on catches was pretty high but every drop was blown out of proportion.

    I recall in a Test in the Windies the pitch was rather two paced, and the bounce was erratic. Russell stood further back to the likes or Frasier than the home keeper did to Ambrose and Walsh because (he admitted) he was worried about being hit. In consequence several edges fell short of him (and the slips who, rightly, took their mark from him). I have no doubt the Stewart would have moved up, risked being hit and not being able to handle one or two deliveries that really flew, and created many more chances for himself and the slips.

    Stewart - badly underated as a keeper.

  2. #47
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Dhoni might be a rubbish keeper, but who else do India have? It's not like you guys have decent replacements ready to fill in.

  3. #48
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    They probably do, but the one thing that I do agree with SJS about is that there's a complete lack of understanding of the art of wicketkeeping.

    Taking Matthew Wade; whilst it's obvious to me that he's a pretty poor keeper, I have no idea why he's poor and what he could be doing better to improve.

  4. #49
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post
    Dhoni might be a rubbish keeper, but who else do India have? It's not like you guys have decent replacements ready to fill in.
    I am sure there are others better than Dhoni for he sets the bar very low but a keeper who has been in contention and is probably the best wicket keeper in the country by far is Wriddhiman Saha of Bengal and CSK

    The fact that you asked that question, however, shows how little attention is paid by everyone to wicket keeping. Parthia Patel is much better known in spite of being a modest keeper because he is a much better batsman than he can ever be a keeper.

    This question is symbolic of the devaluation of keeping skills.


  5. #50
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    They probably do, but the one thing that I do agree with SJS about is that there's a complete lack of understanding of the art of wicketkeeping.

    Taking Matthew Wade; whilst it's obvious to me that he's a pretty poor keeper, I have no idea why he's poor and what he could be doing better to improve.
    Thanks for agreeing with me even with the qualifying tone of it :-)

    Yes people have no clue on what makes a great keeper but it does not stop people from arguing the case for the inclusion of poor keepers based on their batting skills. Lets at least be honest, as you are being so refreshingly, that we do not know what makes a good or great keeper so we will discuss the merits of different keepers only in the context of their batting.

    One could go into details of what keeping involves but I am busy right now writing two chapters for the book on The 25 Greatest Innings. Maybe at a later date.

    As I sit watching the Delhi Test, Ishant Sharma just bowled the last over before taking the new ball. The ball, bowled over the wicket, went straight and pitched on the middle stump. Dhoni, standing back had already got up and moving towards the leg side. This is completely wrong. The keeper is supposed to remain down till the ball pitches and then rise with the ball as it comes off the surface.

    If Dhoni had done that, he would have also noticed that the bal started cutting/seaming away after pitching moving in the direction of the off stump. Sidldle edged the ball and what should have been a relatively easy catch, as far as edges go, became difficult for Dhoni to even get to sinc he was moving in the other direction.

    This is very poor keeping and defies the very basic principals of keeping.

    If Dhoni was an unknown young keeper who had come for keeping trials and had done this, the coach of the club would have scratched the name off the list.

    But this is Dhoni and all we do show the bowler, Kohli, Tendulkar looking up to heavens and Dhoni bewildered getting on to his feet.
    Last edited by SJS; 22-03-2013 at 05:06 AM.

  6. #51
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    This Poll should be repeated with a straight shoot out between Dhoni and Stewart as they're the only two who are not Test standard keepers. I can only assume from some of the votes that some people vote for who they is best just to be silly, don't know a good keeper from a bad one or have only been watching cricket since the 90's when the gloves are tossed to a batsman with minimal keeping skills who can score runs.

  7. #52
    International Debutant Adders's Avatar
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    What muppet voted for Alan Knott???

  8. #53
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    What muppet voted for Alan Knott???
    I can only presume that Bob Taylor is a CWer.

  9. #54
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    It may be harsh but I voted for Dujon. On the downside of his career he was quite sloppy and unfortunately when you stack the great Aussie side next to the great WI there is one complete mismatch.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits

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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    It may be harsh but I voted for Dujon. On the downside of his career he was quite sloppy and unfortunately when you stack the great Aussie side next to the great WI there is one complete mismatch.
    Very harsh. His keeping to the four man pace attack on some dangerously uneven wickets in the Caribbean was deserving of a medal.

  11. #56
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    As I sit watching the Delhi Test, Ishant Sharma just bowled the last over before taking the new ball. The ball, bowled over the wicket, went straight and pitched on the middle stump. Dhoni, standing back had already got up and moving towards the leg side. This is completely wrong. The keeper is supposed to remain down till the ball pitches and then rise with the ball as it comes off the surface.

    If Dhoni had done that, he would have also noticed that the bal started cutting/seaming away after pitching moving in the direction of the off stump. Sidldle edged the ball and what should have been a relatively easy catch, as far as edges go, became difficult for Dhoni to even get to sinc he was moving in the other direction.

    This is very poor keeping and defies the very basic principals of keeping.

    If Dhoni was an unknown young keeper who had come for keeping trials and had done this, the coach of the club would have scratched the name off the list.

    Ne bowler, Kohli, Tendulkar looking up to heavens and Dhoni bewildered getting on to his feet.
    How many international keepers actually stay down? There is a movement in coaching towards set / crouch / posture positions where the gloves are NOT on the ground at any point. I've just watched an over of Panesar to Brownlie in slo-mo and Prior's gloves don't touch the ground once. I know this is an intentional technical decision and it relies upon true bounce and decent bowling... but I've not looked closely at any of the other international keepers.
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  12. #57
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup View Post
    How many international keepers actually stay down? There is a movement in coaching towards set / crouch / posture positions where the gloves are NOT on the ground at any point. I've just watched an over of Panesar to Brownlie in slo-mo and Prior's gloves don't touch the ground once. I know this is an intentional technical decision and it relies upon true bounce and decent bowling... but I've not looked closely at any of the other international keepers.
    Well a lot of things in the game, in batting as well as bowling, see players deviating from the strictly copybook. Keeping isn't going to be different yet there are deviations and there are deviations just as there are keepers and there are keepers :-)

    The individual flair and deviation from the straight line is more plausible in batting and bowling because of the variety of things a bowler can try and do with the ball and even more is the number of things a batsman can do to deal itch it. The keepers job and what he is expected to do is relatively more straight jacketed. He is to collect, as neatly as possible, every ball that comes in his direction and within reasonable reach directly or after hitting the bat or something else. This constitutes a very large proportion of his job. There are other things like run outs and stumping a that follow from it or what happened later in the process.

    There isn't much scope for personal flair or innovation for the basic job of collecting the ball so other than changing a bit on the starting posture and whether one sits on haunches, crouches or has the body slightly raised, plus the weight on here's or toes or balanced, there isn't much dispute on the gloves being close to the ground pointing downwards.

    Unfortunately one can't recommend any videos f keeping per se in match situations here is one from Healy on the basics which is very interesting

    Wicketkeeping masterclass

  13. #58
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    I reckon Boucher is really quite underrated as a keeper. As reliable as they come to the quicks, for mine. I can't remember him ever messing anything up for the vast majority of his career, and he was absolutely splendid athletically.
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