Nathan Lyon deserves more respect

[morgieb]

Originally Posted by Mr_Ronan

I actually just read a story on the Daily Mail website about how a small group of anti-refugee activists protested outside the MCG where he was playing today. This is the story:


Activists Picket Aussie Refugee Cricketer
February 21, 2013
By Stuart Shackleton

Australian anti-refugee activists today staged a protest against the selection in the Victorian cricket side of a Pakistani player who came to the country seeking asylum.

The small band of protestors gathered outside the Melbourne Cricket Ground on the last day of play between Queensland and Victoria, who had provided a State debut to Fawad Ahmed, 33, who succesfully sought asylum in Australia to escape persecution in Pakistan.

Police moved on the protestors, who were allegedly making inflammatory chants, including one in which they yelled in unison: "Cricket's for us, Cricket's for us, wear whites, be white and that's alright. Cricket's for you, Cricket's for you, as long as your Aussie and not some brown dude."

The officers also removed from one of the protestors a sign which read, "Shihad were a great band but Jihad is a bad plan."

Cricket Australia chief James Sutherland said he was shocked by the behaviour of the protestors who were "appalling in their discriminatory actions, despite their ability to craft a catchy slogan".

One Victorian fan who witnessed the protest described it as "really fully bad". "As far as I'm concerned it shouldn't matter where your'e from, if you can play cricket heaps good who cares if you are a different looking dark sort of fella."

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at this.

[the big bambino]

Laugh until you cry.

[WindieWeathers]

Originally Posted by Mr_Ronan

Swann is definitely a far better spinner than Lyon...at this point. But Lyon is ahead of where Swann was at 25 years old.

No sure age is that important to be honest, where was Ajmal age 25? he was nowhere near test level and yet look at him now? some spinners can develop at different times, both Murali and Warn started test cricket age 21 for example,

And the comparison with Narine is apt. Although the Windies tweaker has averaged 48 with the ball in his first 5 Tests so is still a way behind Lyon as a Test bowler.

Narine has had a phenonemal start to his limited overs career. But it'll be interesting to see if he can adapt his style, which is certainly best suited to limited overs, to the toughest form of the game.

Narine's problem in test cricket thus far has been performing away from home, of those five tests one was a rained off game on a road in England where Swann didn't even take a wicket, that was Sunil's debut so it was tough, but at home against NZ he took 12 wickets in the two tests at an average of 25, so he just needs to adapt to away pitches, to be fair in the recent ODI series against Aus he looked very good, so perhaps that suggests he's getting used to different conditions.

The next two years or so should show us what Lyon and Narine are all about and who can cut it at the top level.

[Mr_Ronan]

Originally Posted by WindieWeathers

Not sure age is that important to be honest, where was Ajmal age 25? he was nowhere near test level and yet look at him now? some spinners can develop at different times, both Murali and Warn started test cricket age 21 for example.

I think age is definitely a big issue when it comes to spinners. The vast majority do not reach their peak until they are about 30 so the fact Lyon is still 5 years away from that suggests he can improve greatly, despite already being a very solid Test spinner.

[WindieWeathers]

Originally Posted by Mr_Ronan

I think age is definitely a big issue when it comes to spinners. The vast majority do not reach their peak until they are about 30 so the fact Lyon is still 5 years away from that suggests he can improve greatly, despite already being a very solid Test spinner.

Thats not always the case though, because many would argue that the likes of Vetorri and Harby have declined with age, yet both started when they were around 18.

[Mr_Ronan]

Originally Posted by WindieWeathers

Thats not always the case though, because many would argue that the likes of Vetorri and Harby have declined with age, yet both started when they were around 18.

Don't know if Vettori has declined, IMO he's either stayed static or perhaps just struggled to develop because he doesn't have the quality around him he had early in his career.

But Harby definitely has.

[vic_orthdox]

Think Vettori's decline has been injury related.

So smart, but doesn't have the weapons that he used to pre-back injury.

[social]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

Think Vettori's decline has been injury related.

So smart, but doesn't have the weapons that he used to pre-back injury.

This

Jack will know better than me but I think his back injury has restricted the rotation of his body to such a degree in the bowling action that it's almost impossible for him to get much work on the ball these days

[social]

OK most people will know that I dont have a huge amount of time for Lyon but that is only because he is a traditional offie based in Australia.

As such, he is almost doomed to mediocrity from a statiscal view point because, for the most part, the conditions in his own country are so against him

Having said that, I respect his talent as he has all the tools to be succesful at his craft over an extended period in certain conditions

I also think that his performances so far are pretty remarkable for someone with virtually no fc experience and believe that he can play a very important role for Oz in the future as a SUPPORT to the quicks

It's when it comes to his match-winning ability in Oz that I have real doubts

[Mr_Ronan]

He is certainly not a match-winning spinner yet and won't be in the short term. But luckily Australia have firepower in the pace department so he is only needed to provide variety, take his 2-fors and 3-fors and basically wheel away at one end whil the quicks attack at the other.

But I do believe that in 3 or 4 years time he may reach a point where he is capable of consistently troubling the world's best batsmen regardless of pitch conditions.

[GingerFurball]

How many offies have actually won matches for their side in Australia?

Swann taking a 5-for at Adelaide is about the best example I can think of.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by social

OK most people will know that I dont have a huge amount of time for Lyon but that is only because he is a traditional offie based in Australia.

As such, he is almost doomed to mediocrity from a statiscal view point because, for the most part, the conditions in his own country are so against him

Having said that, I respect his talent as he has all the tools to be succesful at his craft over an extended period in certain conditions

I also think that his performances so far are pretty remarkable for someone with virtually no fc experience and believe that he can play a very important role for Oz in the future as a SUPPORT to the quicks

It's when it comes to his match-winning ability in Oz that I have real doubts

This tbh.

[hendrix]

Originally Posted by WindieWeathers

No sure age is that important to be honest, where was Ajmal age 25? he was nowhere near test level and yet look at him now?

Never know with the Pakistani selectors tbf.

[Top_Cat]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

How many offies have actually won matches for their side in Australia?

Swann taking a 5-for at Adelaide is about the best example I can think of.

Saqlain's effort in Hobart should have been match-winning.

[NZTailender]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

How many offies have actually won matches for their side in Australia?

Swann taking a 5-for at Adelaide is about the best example I can think of.

Hazza had a couple of last innings 5fers vs Pakistan IIRC. Also was bagged for not taking 4th innings wickets (also IIRC) but might have ended up changing that. Has a decent home average too, I think.