The ATG ODI World XIs Game

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by watson

Yes weldone, that would be a superb bowling attack.

But I just want to go back to Imran Khan for a minute. The suggestion by some that he doesn't deserve to be in the first XI is inaccurate.

His figures are;

Wickets = 182
Average = 26.61
Strike Rate = 40.9
Economy Rate = 3.89
(Joel 'The Benchmark' Garner = 3.09 runs per over)

Any Economy Rate that is under 4 runs an over is excellent, and brilliant for a 5th bowler who is not expected to take wickets because that is the job of the opening bowlers. Incidently, 3.89 runs is exactly the same stat as Wasim Akram !

Also, it is generally accepted that Imran is the best batsman out of all the 'great allrounders'. He is therefore the perfect No.7 IMO. Especially when there is no tail to speak of.

Any excuse to post Imran vids

3 crazy Imran Khan deliveries, floors Aussies 1987 World Cup - YouTube

He was a very good ODI bowler until 1988-89. Here is the semi-final vs Aus 1987

[sobers no:1]

Originally Posted by watson

I am not a mind reader, a neither am I a clairvoyant. Also, I'm too lazy to second guess, or 'read between the lines'.

So, when making a statement SobersNo.1 you have little choice but to try and be a little more coherent, or I'm going to ignore you and move on to read something from someone that either makes sense, or is at least funny.

why YOU think imran a better bat than kapil ?

[weldone]

It's very hard to compare Imran and Kapil as ODI batsmen.

Imran was the better no. 4/5 bat easily, Kapil was the better no. 6/7 bat easily - let's keep it like that.

It's like comparing between Mohammad Kaif and Abdul Razzaq as ODI batsmen. Apples and oranges really..

[smalishah84]

incidentally here are Imran and Kapil's all round records until the end of 1987. Imran's bowling average took such a hit from 1988 to 1992. Went from 21 to 26.

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

[sobers no:1]

AR ranking

imran
Reliance ICC Player Rankings

kapil
Reliance ICC Player Rankings

[weldone]

Bowler votes so far:
5- Kapil
3- Bond
2- Donald, Lee
1- Watson, Waqar, Warne, Flintoff, Holding, Ambrose

[Himannv]

Dhoni

Dev, Warne

[watson]

Originally Posted by Himannv

Dhoni

Dev, Warne

Never occured to me that having both Saqlain and Warne in the same team might be a good idea.

Hadlee-Pollock-Dev-Saqlain-Warne would work as an attack I think. Although NUFANs point is a valid one. There should be a spear-head who bowls really quick.

[watson]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

incidentally here are Imran and Kapil's all round records until the end of 1987. Imran's bowling average took such a hit from 1988 to 1992. Went from 21 to 26.

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

A bowling Average of 26 is still excellent. But if you are worried then we insist on the 30 year old version of Imran. Or whatever.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by watson

A bowling Average of 26 is still excellent. But if you are worried then we insist on the 30 year old version of Imran. Or whatever.

He was already 35+ by end of 1987

[watson]

Originally Posted by sobers no:1

why YOU think imran a better bat than kapil ?

Imrans's ODI overall batting average is 33.41, Kapil's is 23.79 - a difference of about 10. In the No.7 position it is 28.52 versus 24.17. Kapil Dev's SR is much higher (95.07 versus 72.65) but this can be explained by the fact that Imran batted more often at No.5 and No.6 where there was less reason to slog. On-the-other-hand the majority of Kapil Dev's innings were at either No.7 or No.8, so he had little choice but to try and hit boundaries. Imran could be just as devastating when he had be, but batting in the middle-order meant that he had to pace himself more.

So all in all, I don't think that we can claim that either batsman is significantly better than the other by looking at ODI stats only.

However, we can say with some certainty that Imran Khan is an intrinically better and more talented batsman than Kapil Dev if we view both ODI and Test match stats combined. Imran's Test average stayed in the mid-30s throughout his career, and finished at 37.69. In the No.6 position for Pakistan he averaged a whopping 61.86 over 20 innings. None of Kapil Dev's figures come close to this number.

If the tail of our selected team didn't consist of Akram-Garner-Murali-McGrath then I may be inclined to pick Dev. However, since I know that Imran's batting technique is more rounded than Dev then I prefer Imran in the context of the team chosen.

In short, Imran's excellent batting technique allows him to play any role required by the situation. He has the better natural ability to play a supportive role and rotate the strike to Viv Richards if that is what he has to do. But also the ability to carve 4s and 6s in the last couple of overs if need be. I see him as more versatile than Dev. At least that's my opinion.

Imran Khan Huge Six v Australia 1992 WC - YouTube

[NUFAN]

Originally Posted by watson

Never occured to me that having both Saqlain and Warne in the same team might be a good idea.

Hadlee-Pollock-Dev-Saqlain-Warne would work as an attack I think. Although NUFANs point is a valid one. There should be a spear-head who bowls really quick.

You know I suggested Warne too but yeah I was worried that if Warne did get selected it would be a bowler like Dev or Klusener who would get picked. Normally I'd be fine with them (obviously since I wanted Dev in the top team) but with the 2 quicks already selected, I prefer an express quick as the other bowler.

[weldone]

Originally Posted by watson

...Imran could be just as devastating when he had to be...

In short, no. Especially in the first half of his cricketing career, he was (in most cases) a failure in the end overs when the team needed quick runs.

[watson]

But back to the current team under question.....

IMO Dev is perfect in that No.7 spot with Pollock and Hadlee to follow.

[Himannv]

Originally Posted by watson

Never occured to me that having both Saqlain and Warne in the same team might be a good idea.

Hadlee-Pollock-Dev-Saqlain-Warne would work as an attack I think. Although NUFANs point is a valid one. There should be a spear-head who bowls really quick.

Jayasuriya's inexplicable exclusion makes the middle overs crucial here and as a result I think a spinner would add more value than a fast bowler in terms of balance. Warne is arguably the best option on that list as well in terms of quality.

Klusener would be the best option at seven but he can't bowl 10 overs (the lack of Jayasuriya once again messes things up here) so Kapil is the obvious choice to fill in. This leaves us with a fairly strong tail which may make all the difference for this side if we consider a potential showdown with the first team.

It leaves us with a team that looks something like this:

1. Saeed Anwar
2. Hashim Amla
3. Zaheer Abbas
4. Best possible batsman
5. Best possible batsman
6. Dhoni
7. Kapil Dev
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Richard Hadlee
10. Shance Warne
11. Saqlain Mushtaq

We can always hope that Symonds makes it in at 5, but with the way the voting is going I wouldn't count on it so I'd rather go with the safe option here to keep the team balanced.