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Thread: The ATG ODI World XIs Game

  1. #256
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weldone View Post
    Really needed Jayasuriya as the 6th bowler. Jayasuriya not being there would mean we can't (/shouldn't) select Klusener as 5th bowler, again....unless probably if we select someone like Symonds at no. 5 later...Then again, Jayasuriya is a far better bowler than Symonds.
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    Why? Can't Klusener bowl 10?

  2. #257
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Why? Can't Klusener bowl 10?
    At this level of cricket, absolutely not IMO.
    ~ Cribbage

    Quote Originally Posted by Riggins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by simonlee48 View Post
    Sanga has done well but Murali has done better. In my opinion, Murali is simply the best off spinner in history of cricket and I can't make that kind of statement for Sanga.
    Sanga isn't the best off spinner in the history of cricket? News to me.

  3. #258
    International Captain weldone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    6. Dhoni
    7. Dev
    8. Hadlee

    Looks very good IMO.
    You're forgetting Pollock. This will be lip-smacking:
    6. Dhoni
    7. Kapil
    8. Pollock
    9. Hadlee
    10. Saqlain
    11. Ambrose

    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Why? Can't Klusener bowl 10?
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    At this level of cricket, absolutely not IMO.
    Yes, what PEWS said...

    Klusener was a good bowler - but I won't back him to consistently bowl 10 overs in every match regardless of conditions opposition etc, especially at this level. Klusener would do well with an established 6th bowler like Jayasuriya.

    Have absolutely no problem with Kapil, and to a lesser extent Flintoff bowling 10 overs every match...
    Last edited by weldone; 18-02-2013 at 02:06 AM.
    "I want to raise my hand and say one thing. Those who complain about my love for the game or commitment to the game are clueless. These are the only 2 areas where I give myself 100 out of 100."
    - Sachin Tendulkar, as told in an interview published in Bengali newspaper Anandabazar Patrika after his 100th International century (translated by weldone)

  4. #259
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    At this level of cricket, absolutely not IMO.
    If my maths is right, Klusener (on average) bowled at least 7 overs per ODI in his career.

    Economy rate of under 5.

    Ave under 30.

    SR of 38.

    Seems viable to me that he'd be a sound fifth option.


  5. #260
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Just for comparison, Flintoff bowled (on average), under 7 overs per ODI. His raw stats are slightly better though.

  6. #261
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Seems viable to me that he'd be a sound fifth option.
    For a regular ODI? Sure.

    At this level? Not even close IMO.

  7. #262
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    For a regular ODI? Sure.

    At this level? Not even close IMO.
    I see the fifth bowler as someone who can bowl in the middle/late overs, which Klusener did. They generally go for a few more runs than others. But the fifth bowler basically has to be an all rounder as well.

    Just to clarify, I'd choose Kapil over Klusener. But I certainly wouldn't have an issue with Klusener as the 5th bowler in the first or second XI.

    We really should also be considering the merits of guys like Steve Waugh and Simon O'Donnell as pure ODI all rounders. Both excellent death/middle over bowlers who could bat very well. At one point, Steve Waugh was as good a one day bowler as anyone in the world.

  8. #263
    International Captain weldone's Avatar
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    I have no problem with selecting Klusener as the 5th bowler. But with him I'd need a 6th bowler, at least as backup. If not as good as Jayasuriya, someone like even Gayle or Symonds will do...or even someone like Yuvraj if you stretch it a bit...But I won't back Klusener to bowl 10 overs at this level match after match...

    And guys like Steve Waugh will be more suitable to the 6th bowler role than 5th bowler in this kind of an all-time exercise.

  9. #264
    International Captain weldone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himannv View Post
    Joel Garner
    Richard Hadlee

    Dean Jones
    Isn't Garner already taken in 1st XI?

  10. #265
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weldone View Post
    I have no problem with selecting Klusener as the 5th bowler. But with him I'd need a 6th bowler, at least as backup. If not as good as Jayasuriya, someone like even Gayle or Symonds will do...or even someone like Yuvraj if you stretch it a bit...But I won't back Klusener to bowl 10 overs at this level match after match...

    And guys like Steve Waugh will be more suitable to the 6th bowler role than 5th bowler in this kind of an all-time exercise.
    I disagree (respectfully). If Klusener can't be relied on to bowl, why would you want someone like Gayle having a go? Essentially it'll mean the team are flying, and things are a bit out of hand. In which case good captaincy would mean going back to your strike or stock bowlers (McGrath, Hadlee etc) for a bit, rather than someone like Gayle.

    I think Waugh as a stand alone 5th bowler is fine, along with 3 genuine quicks and a spinner. Seriously, the guy was as good as anyone before his back got ****ed up. And on some tracks and in some match situations, he's even better than the genuine quicks.

  11. #266
    International Captain weldone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I disagree (respectfully). If Klusener can't be relied on to bowl, why would you want someone like Gayle having a go? Essentially it'll mean the team are flying, and things are a bit out of hand. In which case good captaincy would mean going back to your strike or stock bowlers (McGrath, Hadlee etc) for a bit, rather than someone like Gayle.
    Forget Gayle for the time, think about Jayasuriya. Think about a bowling lineup of (Hadlee+Ambrose+Pollock+Saqlain+Klusener). On a dustbowl, won't you wish if you had more than 10 overs from a spinner to exploit the conditions?

  12. #267
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I see the fifth bowler as someone who can bowl in the middle/late overs, which Klusener did. They generally go for a few more runs than others. But the fifth bowler basically has to be an all rounder as well.

    Just to clarify, I'd choose Kapil over Klusener. But I certainly wouldn't have an issue with Klusener as the 5th bowler in the first or second XI.

    We really should also be considering the merits of guys like Steve Waugh and Simon O'Donnell as pure ODI all rounders. Both excellent death/middle over bowlers who could bat very well. At one point, Steve Waugh was as good a one day bowler as anyone in the world.
    Here is Steve Waugh bowling to Viv Richards in peak fitness. He seems quicker than I remember;

    Viv Richards vs Steve Waugh TAKE THAT VIV! 1988 1st test Gabba - YouTube

    There was also a comment earlier in this thread that Steve Waugh wasn't a good batsman to have at the crease during the last 10 overs when some big hitting needed to be done. I suggest the opposite, as does this video;

    Most imperious six in cricket history - YouTube

    Given Waugh's brilliant fielding I don't think he would be out of place in any ATG ODI team;

    Steve Waugh Classic Catch Australia v West Indies at MCG 198889 - YouTube

  13. #268
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  14. #269
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weldone View Post
    Forget Gayle for the time, think about Jayasuriya. Think about a bowling lineup of (Hadlee+Ambrose+Pollock+Saqlain+Klusener). On a dustbowl, won't you wish if you had more than 10 overs from a spinner to exploit the conditions?
    Yeh, probably. I guess it comes down to conditions and team balance. I'm thinking more Australian conditions, but I guess elsewhere a second spinner is needed.

  15. #270
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Yeah I agree; if Flintoff plays he should probably bat 5 or 6, but I'd have no issue with him doing that and Dhoni batting 7. Dhoni's batted below lots of worse ODI batsmen than Flintoff while playing for India.
    I think Dhoni is the same though. He usually starts reasonably slowly before starting to smash it. It's one of the reasons his T20I strike rate is so poor in comparison to his ODI strike rate.

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