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Thread: Geoff Armstrong- The 100 Greatest Cricketers

  1. #151
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Jack Hobbs
    Len Hutton
    Donald Bradman *
    Viv Richards ^
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Garfield Sobers ^
    Adam Gilchrist +
    Imran Khan
    Malcolm Marshall
    Shane Warne ^
    Glen Mcgrath

    Sunil Gavaskar
    Herbert Sutcliffe
    George Headley
    Brian Lara ^
    Greg Chappell *^
    Jacques Kallis ^
    Keith Miller
    Allan Knott +
    Curtly Ambrose
    Dennis Lillee
    Muttiah Muralitharan

    Gordon Greenidge ^
    Barry Richards
    Wally Hammond ^
    Graeme Pollock
    Ricky Ponting ^
    Frank Worrell *
    Les Ames +
    Richard Hadlee
    Michael Holding
    Fred Trueman
    Bill O’Reilly

    Arthur Morris
    Bobby Simpson ^
    Kumar Sangakkara
    Everton Weekes ^
    Allan Border *
    Clyde Walcott +
    Ian Botham ^
    Ray Lindwall
    Jim Laker
    Joel Garner
    Sydney Barnes

    Victor Trumper
    Geoffrey Boycott
    Rahul Dravid ^
    Neil Harvey ^
    Javed Miandad * ^
    Aubrey Faulkner
    Mike Procter
    Alan Davidson
    Hedley Verity
    Jack Blackham +
    Allan Donald

    Graeme Gooch ^
    Matthew Hayden ^
    Rohan Kanhai ^
    Kevin Pietersen
    Steve Waugh *
    Andy Flower +
    Kapil Dev
    Wasim Akram
    Andy Roberts
    Dale Steyn
    Clarrie Grimmett

    Graeme Smith ^
    Vijay Merchant
    Ken Barrington
    Stan McCabe ^
    Clive Lloyd *^
    Charlie Macartney
    John Waite +
    Shaun Pollock
    Anil Kumble
    Harold Larwood
    Courtney Walsh

    Bruce Mitchell ^
    Virender Sehwag
    Denis Compton
    Inzamam Ul-Haq ^
    Dudley Nourse
    Tony Greig ^
    Farokh Engineer +
    Richie Benaud *
    Ian Bishop
    Waqar Younis
    John Snow

    Conrad Hunte
    Eddie Barlow ^
    Ian Chappell *^
    Ted Dexter
    Martin Crowe ^
    Shivnarine Chanderpaul
    Ian Healy +
    Wes Hall
    Alec Bedser
    Colin Croft
    Subhash Gupte

    Trevor Goddard

    Made some adjustments as per Watson's suggestions. Tough to leave out Lawry from the revamped last 11, but Barlow brings his bowling ability and superb slip catching.
    Last edited by kyear2; 10-02-2013 at 03:33 PM.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  2. #152
    State Vice-Captain akilana's Avatar
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    You pick B richards in 1st XI (at least 2nd) or you don't pick him at all. If the sample size isn't enough to put him in the 1st XI then it's not for 5th or 6th XI. Same goes for G pollock

  3. #153
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akilana View Post
    You pick B richards in 1st XI (at least 2nd) or you don't pick him at all. If the sample size isn't enough to put him in the 1st XI then it's not for 5th or 6th XI. Same goes for G pollock
    I just find it really difficult to rate Procter and Richards, talent wise they are first team, but at least the guys in the first two teams have accomplished so much for their teams its difficult to omit them for Richards.
    With Pollock, that is just where I rate him. Third team isn't bad by any means.

  4. #154
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPrez View Post
    My argument to your second team would be that if you felt the need to have two spinners in your team, you would be playing on a spinning track. In this case, you wouldn't want to be carrying a superfluous pacer if you're particularly selecting your team to suit the spinning conditions.
    The thing is, I've seen Warne on numerous occasions bowl on a "seamers" wicket on the first morning of a test and get turn and get wickets. I'd imagine Murali did the same on occasions. Even on a "non-spinning" track Warne was a massive handful for great batsmen.

    Plus, I also consider the fact that if the game is in the fifth day and is there to be won, and the wicket is getting rough, Warne from one end and Murali (or O'Reilly etc) from the other end will be a massive nightmare of survival.


  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    The thing is, I've seen Warne on numerous occasions bowl on a "seamers" wicket on the first morning of a test and get turn and get wickets. I'd imagine Murali did the same on occasions. Even on a "non-spinning" track Warne was a massive handful for great batsmen.

    Plus, I also consider the fact that if the game is in the fifth day and is there to be won, and the wicket is getting rough, Warne from one end and Murali (or O'Reilly etc) from the other end will be a massive nightmare of survival.
    This.

    Also, whilst researching all rounders previously, it seems to go pretty much like this in their individual attributes.

    Batting: Sobers and Kallis >>> Miller > Procter/Botham/Imran/Kapil >> Hadlee
    Bowling: Hadlee > Procter/Imran > Miller/Botham/Kapil >> Sobers/Kallis

  6. #156
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    So ironic, Sobers and Kallis the best batsmen, but by some distance the worst bowlers, and inverse for Hadlee. Is that better of a Procter/Miller who is lies in the middle of both catergories?


    2000

  7. #157
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Ok then chaps, so my question for you:

    Should Ryan McLaren bat at 6 when Kallis retires?
    @CowsCorner - 202 followers and counting!

    Disclaimer: I am a biased South African. Anything I say is likely to have something in it that ultimately favours the Proteas.

  8. #158
    State Vice-Captain akilana's Avatar
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    Please post that in the right thread and people will answer you

  9. #159
    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    So ironic, Sobers and Kallis the best batsmen, but by some distance the worst bowlers, and inverse for Hadlee. Is that better of a Procter/Miller who is lies in the middle of both catergories?


    2000
    To be fair to Sobers, he suffered from chronic knee problems and that severely curtailed his pace bowling abilities as his career wore on

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post
    To be fair to Sobers, he suffered from chronic knee problems and that severely curtailed his pace bowling abilities as his career wore on
    The fact remains that both Sobers and Kallis are easily the worst bowlers of the "great" all rounders.

  11. #161
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    They'd be 5th bowlers though. Better to have a batting allrounder as 5th bowler than a bowling allrounder.

  12. #162
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akilana View Post
    Please post that in the right thread and people will answer you
    It is the right thread. It's another theoretical question that can be used as an example similar to the Miller debate.

  13. #163
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    So 33 matches outweighs the 60 other tests he bowled with avg. 41, sr. 110?

    That peak isn't good enough, even as it is. Whether Sobers scored a lot of runs isn't the issue because on his batting alone he has a place. We're talking about the drop in bowling quality one has to deal with when using him as a 3rd seamer.

    Miller is ideal for such a role because his average and strike rate overall (let alone his peak) is world-class/ATG class. His limitation is less wickets per Test than other ATG bowlers but as a 3rd seamer it's not really an issue.
    So if he only played these 33 Tests you would have no problem with him? So is the alltime team based on a player at his best or what he did over his whole career?

    I always think a little of both, so we could choose the Sobers who played for those eight years which is a fair period.

    Personally I would pick players at their peak for say two-three years. To beat another all time team you need the bowlers so players like Thommo and Jack Iverson would be in my team, they may both win you one Test each in a five Test series.
    You know it makes sense.

  14. #164
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    You certainly can't pick players based just on a certain period imo. Otherwise Philander would be a shoo-in.

  15. #165
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPrez View Post
    You certainly can't pick players based just on a certain period imo. Otherwise Philander would be a shoo-in.
    Well with Sobers, surely 8 years is a long enough period. Otherwise players who go on too long are marked down. Which is another reason why stats can't be the be all and end all

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