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Thread: Your biggest CW epiphany

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    State Captain harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Your most cherished CW epiphany

    So, even though I am relatively quite new to the CW forum, I can claim to have had some minor epiphanies, i.e. both long-held-myths-busting and completely-refreshing-out-of-the-blue-insight moments. Ones that I cherish are of analysing Gavaskar's performances against the mighty WI pace battery, tales about Stan McCabe's brilliance, deconstructing Sydney Barnes' bowling style and temperament, discovering the brilliance of Monty Noble, Charlie Macartney and the like. There are quite a few more.

    It would be great to hear from other forum members about their personal cherished epiphanies, and more
    Last edited by harsh.ag; 08-02-2013 at 02:14 AM.
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    Cricketer Of The Year Hurricane's Avatar
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    Not an epiphany but just a small realisation for me was that in a test team you just pick your four best bowlers in the country and if it is a close call between two bowlers for the 4th spot you still take the best bowler of the two even if the other is a better bat.

    This logic was used time and again on CW to justify Patel's selection ahead of other spinners in the country who had similar FC bowling averages and were better bats. Eventually I came around.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    My CW epiphany came on January 6 2008 when I was given cause to hate India more than England.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    Ones that I cherish are of analysing Gavaskar's performances against the mighty WI pace battery, tales about Stan McCabe's brilliance, deconstructing Sydney Barnes' bowling style and temperament, discovering the brilliance of Monty Noble, Charlie Macartney and the like.
    A very interesting list indeed. I would be very keen to know what you thought on each of thse and what you realised when you saw the "other point of view"


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    When I realised PEWS was actually a dude. His old avatar had me fooled.
    Last edited by Daemon; 09-02-2013 at 01:13 AM.

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    State Captain harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    A very interesting list indeed. I would be very keen to know what you thought on each of thse and what you realised when you saw the "other point of view"
    With Sunny, I came to an understanding that although his record against the Windies attacks was very good in general, he tended to under-perform by quite a significant margin on his average when facing the full might of their greatest pace battery all at once, at their best. That obviously makes sense, because that's the way it happens for all batsmen, including the greatest ones (apart from Bradman, of course, despite Larwood and Bedser).

    McCabe sounds like a combo of Laxman and Ponting. Not always consistent, but brilliantly special when you need him, and a fast, dominant scorer. Plus, his peak seems to have overshadowed the Don for a short while too.

    With Barnes, I had thought that he must have been a medium pacer, who could cut the bull, somehow through the air. But now it seems that he was in the O'Reilly mold; slightly faster, with a bit more bite in the spin off the pitch and with slight swing through the air, plus a temperament of an opening bowler. The very high arm action was more reminiscent of a medium pacer as well as a curious disguise to deviate from the spitty spin he produced with the leather in his hand.

    Noble and Macartney were fascinating simply because I hadn't an iota of knowledge about them before CW. Macartney's all-rounder peak, though extremely short, rivaled that of Sobers, Miller and Botham. Monty Noble I still need to know more about.

    And SJS, since most of what I know about Barnes came from your *baap* links and descriptions, I hope I have been able to understand his bowling at least a bit.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Ponting averaged 70 over 50 tests and 60 over a hundred. It's a flash in the pan sure, but a fairly bright one

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    When i saw a post breaking down Murali's career into three phases and saw that in the middle phase he took 630 wickets in 90 matches @ 19. I was just dumbstruck.

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    With Sunny, I came to an understanding that although his record against the Windies attacks was very good in general, he tended to under-perform by quite a significant margin on his average when facing the full might of their greatest pace battery all at once, at their best. That obviously makes sense, because that's the way it happens for all batsmen, including the greatest ones (apart from Bradman, of course, despite Larwood and Bedser).

    McCabe sounds like a combo of Laxman and Ponting. Not always consistent, but brilliantly special when you need him, and a fast, dominant scorer. Plus, his peak seems to have overshadowed the Don for a short while too.

    With Barnes, I had thought that he must have been a medium pacer, who could cut the bull, somehow through the air. But now it seems that he was in the O'Reilly mold; slightly faster, with a bit more bite in the spin off the pitch and with slight swing through the air, plus a temperament of an opening bowler. The very high arm action was more reminiscent of a medium pacer as well as a curious disguise to deviate from the spitty spin he produced with the leather in his hand.

    Noble and Macartney were fascinating simply because I hadn't an iota of knowledge about them before CW. Macartney's all-rounder peak, though extremely short, rivaled that of Sobers, Miller and Botham. Monty Noble I still need to know more about.

    And SJS, since most of what I know about Barnes came from your *baap* links and descriptions, I hope I have been able to understand his bowling at least a bit.
    Thanks. That's what makes the effort worthwhile.

    By the way, I remember that Gavaskar analysis very well. I got a lot of flak when I first suggested that Gavaskar"s record against the best pacers was not as great as people tend to believe and then I wrote that bit analyzing all his series starting from debut,

    I must take this opportunity to stress that Gavaskar is an all time grew and a personal hero. He did more for bringing India to the next level on the world cricket stage than anyone else one can think of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Ponting averaged 70 over 50 tests and 60 over a hundred. It's a flash in the pan sure, but a fairly bright one
    Yeah! But year wise he played for 17 years, in which he was one of the best for roughly 8 years in the middle, and either side of that he was merely good. Compare with some one like Chappell, who is pretty much the best batsman in his side through out his career, and have one or two lean series, but almost constantly delivered.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Delighted to see that the constant championing of Stan McCabe by myself and others is having the desired effect

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyanash89 View Post
    When i saw a post breaking down Murali's career into three phases and saw that in the middle phase he took 630 wickets in 90 matches @ 19. I was just dumbstruck.
    Brilliant, right? As good as Bradman and Barnes' records, if not better

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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    Brilliant, right? As good as Bradman and Barnes' records, if not better
    Brilliant, yes. Phenomenally so. Statistically as good or better than Bradman's record? No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    .

    With Barnes, I had thought that he must have been a medium pacer, who could cut the bull, somehow through the air. But now it seems that he was in the O'Reilly mold; slightly faster, with a bit more bite in the spin off the pitch and with slight swing through the air, plus a temperament of an opening bowler. The very high arm action was more reminiscent of a medium pacer as well as a curious disguise to deviate from the spitty spin he produced with the leather in his hand.
    Do you have multi epiphanies? Barnes was much swifter than O'Reilly and atleast medium pace in speed judging by the depth of his slips. As for Murali I think his achievements will always tainted by the controversies around him.
    Last edited by the big bambino; 09-02-2013 at 02:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    Do you have multi epiphanies? Barnes was much swifter than O'Reilly and atleast medium pace in speed judging by the depth of his slips. As for Murali I think his achievements will always tainted by the controversies around him.
    I'd like to see those black and white photos TBB. Are you able to scan then upload them?

    (Unfortunatley I haven't been able to find a photo of SF Barnes bowling with his slips cordon in view, even after trawling the net and my books. The best I've come up with is a photo of Bardesley with his middle-stump leaning over after being bowled. The keeper was standing right over the stumps.)
    Last edited by watson; 09-02-2013 at 05:00 PM.
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