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Thread: ***Official*** Australia in India 2012/13

  1. #4696
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    first attempt. kind of stuffed it up, which is fitting anyway

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    I just love all kinds of balls.

  2. #4697
    International Debutant ganeshran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnodouche View Post
    Clarke against spin reminds me most of Lara, tbh. I don't recall any right hander in recent memory "seeming" to be as light on his feet as Clarke. As was Lara obviously. That's not to say he's better than people like VVS against turn, just that he appears like he has all bases covered. And the results say a bit too.
    He is able to adjust very late in the shot. There were a couple of balls today when Clarke came down the track trying to work the ball on the leg side, but Ashwin bowled wide. He changed the shot at the last minute and hit boundaries on the off.
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    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Tim Bresnan apparently... from a loooong time ago.
    Does getting an injured bloke count?
    Quote Originally Posted by Plumbinfront View Post
    I repeat, how does that show how well he did against Murali? Average in matches involving a player isn't the same as average against a particular bowler. You would think the statsguru friends would do their homework but apparently not! And Burgey, as I said, I am not discounting anything Clarke did. I have just said he plays spin bowling with remarkable alacrity. I just think he gets overrated a little wrt spin play. A level above him you have the Sidhus, Jayawardenes and Tendulkars and a level above that you have the Laras, Vvs' and Zaheers. I don't think Clarke would have played Murali half as well as Lara did in 2001, and Warne would have beaten him to the pulp 9 out of 10 times. Garby, Gashwin, Gardeja, Chuckjal and Ferath combined can hope to be 2 per cent as good as Warne and Murali.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnodouche View Post
    Clarke against spin reminds me most of Lara, tbh. I don't recall any right hander in recent memory "seeming" to be as light on his feet as Clarke. As was Lara obviously. That's not to say he's better than people like VVS against turn, just that he appears like he has all bases covered. And the results say a bit too.
    Clarke is comfortably the best player of spin outside the Asian countries around today. Who really cares if he is good as Lara or not, I bet Clarke would be pretty happy to be mentioned in the same breath as him as Lara was a genius and Clarke is well on the way to having a record better than the great man. Can't see why people are trying to pick holes in the best bat in the world right now when he is singlehandedly carrying his teams batting like Lara did for long periods.

    Arachnadouche is right, Clarke is bloody good.

  4. #4699
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    Seems like the thread was dire today. Coincidence that I wasn't around? Doubt it.


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    Hughes' last 30 balls against spin he's been out 3 times and scored ZERO runs. It doesn't get much more damning than that.

    For the sake of trying to save this series, surely Khawaja has to come in for Hughes (unless he bats the house down in the 2nd dig) with Watson and Clarke both moving up one spot.

  6. #4701
    U19 Captain burr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Does getting an injured bloke count?




    Clarke is comfortably the best player of spin outside the Asian countries around today. Who really cares if he is good as Lara or not, I bet Clarke would be pretty happy to be mentioned in the same breath as him as Lara was a genius and Clarke is well on the way to having a record better than the great man. Can't see why people are trying to pick holes in the best bat in the world right now when he is singlehandedly carrying his teams batting like Lara did for long periods.

    Arachnadouche is right, Clarke is bloody good.
    Yes, this is where the Lara comparison is most apt.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Seems like the thread was dire today. Coincidence that I wasn't around? Doubt it.
    You seem to have gotten yourself confused with Jono.

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    Needed to get up today so I went to sleep right at the tea session. Haha, wow.
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFu_Kallis View Post
    Peter Siddle top scores in both innings....... Matthew Wade gets out twice in one ball
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  9. #4704
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Well, if you decide to discount all the blokes Clarke has ever done well against in order to boost your own pov then your opinion will always be worthless, frankly.

    Which, tbf, it plainly was before your last post anyway. There is no way on this earth or any other that Lara was twice the player of spin, or more, that Clarke is. It's a ridiculous point of view. It's one thing to say he was better, but it's absurd to say Lara was Clarke squared against spinners. He just wasn't.
    I think Lara is the best batsman I have seen in my time of watching cricket and is easily the best against spin in that period but thee is no way Clarke is THAT far off him. The guy is a nightmare to bowl at for a spinner Has a lot of the same strengths as Lara against spin AFAIC.. Twinkle toed, can go fully back or fully forward, puts them off easily and most importantly can get the singles easily which is something that frustrates the spinner the most.. I would still rate Lara higher as he has proved it in tougher conditions against better spinners but there is no way to say he won't have managed just as well or almost just as well as Lara in those conditions.. The only area Lara is better in as much as you compare given that they played in diff. conditions and eras basically, is that Lara seemed to be able to do more with the sweep and play different versions of it added to all the shots he had already.. That is one area where I feel Clarke is not quite at the same level but everything else, he seems to be as good as Lara, IMO..


    But there is one guy who I want to mention here when it comes to dominating spinners.. KP.. Granted he hit some disappointing lows against spin at times, but he has also dominated them in difficult conditiosn and that has happened often enough to warrant his name being included in such discussions IMO.. He made the spinners look more hapless than Lara and Clarke ever did at their best, AFAIC.. Man is he a beast when in the nick against spin..
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    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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  10. #4705
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    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Does getting an injured bloke count?




    Clarke is comfortably the best player of spin outside the Asian countries around today. Who really cares if he is good as Lara or not, I bet Clarke would be pretty happy to be mentioned in the same breath as him as Lara was a genius and Clarke is well on the way to having a record better than the great man. Can't see why people are trying to pick holes in the best bat in the world right now when he is singlehandedly carrying his teams batting like Lara did for long periods.

    Arachnadouche is right, Clarke is bloody good.
    Yeah. Criticism levelled at his batting now is totally ridiculous.
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  11. #4706
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    But there is one guy who I want to mention here when it comes to dominating spinners.. KP.. Granted he hit some disappointing lows against spin at times, but he has also dominated them in difficult conditiosn and that has happened often enough to warrant his name being included in such discussions IMO.. He made the spinners look more hapless than Lara and Clarke ever did at their best, AFAIC.. Man is he a beast when in the nick against spin..
    Agreed completely... two hundreds from KP last year: 151 in SL and especially the 186 against India (one of the best ever innings on a spitting track ive ever seen) showed that when in the groove he simply has no peer... during some moments in his three masterpieces last year, he reached heights ive only seen Lara himself approach.

    Imo,Sehwag pre-2011 deserves a mention too. His double at Galle against Murali-Mendis on a minefield is arguably in the top 5 innings ever played by an Indian imo. Its astonishing how good his footwork is, or was, against quality spin. He wasnt like Clarke, who loves charging down the wicket at will, but mostly just either got his front foot a long way forward right to the pitch to smother the spin or go right back to cut away anything marginally short. Shame how he's doing now though

  12. #4707
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    I think Lara is the best batsman I have seen in my time of watching cricket and is easily the best against spin in that period but thee is no way Clarke is THAT far off him. The guy is a nightmare to bowl at for a spinner Has a lot of the same strengths as Lara against spin AFAIC.. Twinkle toed, can go fully back or fully forward, puts them off easily and most importantly can get the singles easily which is something that frustrates the spinner the most.. I would still rate Lara higher as he has proved it in tougher conditions against better spinners but there is no way to say he won't have managed just as well or almost just as well as Lara in those conditions.. The only area Lara is better in as much as you compare given that they played in diff. conditions and eras basically, is that Lara seemed to be able to do more with the sweep and play different versions of it added to all the shots he had already.. That is one area where I feel Clarke is not quite at the same level but everything else, he seems to be as good as Lara, IMO..


    But there is one guy who I want to mention here when it comes to dominating spinners.. KP.. Granted he hit some disappointing lows against spin at times, but he has also dominated them in difficult conditiosn and that has happened often enough to warrant his name being included in such discussions IMO.. He made the spinners look more hapless than Lara and Clarke ever did at their best, AFAIC.. Man is he a beast when in the nick against spin..
    Yeah, good post.

    I've not seen a batsman in my lifetime with a higher ceiling against spin than Pietersen I don't think, but both Lara and Clarke were/are better players of spin than him overall. You'd back yourself a really good chance against Pietersen early in his innings as a spinner, especially if you happened to be a left arm filth bowler. It's just that when he was in it wouldn't matter if you were Richard Dawson or Bill O'Reilly; you were probably going to get hit out of the attack pretty quickly.

    I'd love to give an honourable mention to someone who doesn't come up a lot on this topic; Kallis. In typical Kallis style he's not in this class for memorable innings against all time great opponents, but for his absolutely ruthless efficiency against your average to good Test cricketer - of which there will always be plenty of in any opposition lineup. He certainly wasn't a failure against either Warne or Murali but he didn't get on top of them either; he's in this class because if you were anything less than a great spinner of your time, you had absolutely no ****ing chance of getting him out. He's the anti-KP in this regard, and I don't regard him as good a player of spin as KP let alone Clarke or Lara, but he's someone who I think deserves more of a mention for his clinical efficiency against the quality of spin you're going to face far more often than that in the daily grind that is Test cricket. Pretty much hits a six off a mediocre off break bowler in every innings he bats in these days too, WAG.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 02-03-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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  13. #4708
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Yeah, good post.

    I've not seen a batsman in my lifetime with a higher ceiling against spin than Pietersen I don't think, but both Lara and Clarke were/are better players of spin than him overall. You'd back yourself a really good chance against Pietersen early in his innings as a spinner, especially if you happened to be a left arm filth bowler. It's just that when he was in it wouldn't matter if you were Richard Dawson or Bill O'Reilly; you were probably going to get hit out of the attack pretty quickly.

    I'd love to give an honourable mention to someone who doesn't come up a lot on this topic; Kallis. In typical Kallis style he's not in this class for memorable innings against all time great opponents, but for his absolutely ruthless efficiency against your average to good Test cricketer - of which there will always be plenty of in any opposition lineup. He certainly wasn't a failure against either Warne or Murali but he didn't get on top of them either; he's in this class because if you were anything less than a great spinner of your time, you had absolutely no ****ing chance of getting him out. He's the anti-KP in this regard, and I don't regard him as good a player of spin as KP let alone Clarke or Lara, but he's someone who I think deserves more of a mention for his clinical efficiency against the quality of spin you're going to face far more often than that in the daily grind that is Test cricket. Pretty much hits a six off a mediocre off break bowler in every innings he bats in these days too, WAG.
    Yep Kallis is an ATG because you basically have to be one to dominate him

  14. #4709
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    So it's *posts blatantly baiting Australians* time then
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  15. #4710
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Assuming we are only talking about tests, Lara was awesome against Murali, but never really did that well in India or against India. Kumble troubled him on occasions in the Windies and then in one series so did Venkat Raju when he played in India on turning tracks.

    He was a superb player of spin, but the 2 times as good as X or the greatest of all time etc.. comments are largely based on how he played Murali. Even against Warne the likes of Laxman/Sachin etc.. all dominated as much, if not more on more spinning tracks.

    Edit - He didn't exactly boss around Saqlain Mushtaq either when they faced on a few occasions IIRC.
    Last edited by Cevno; 02-03-2013 at 12:56 PM.



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