***Official*** Australia in India 2012/13

[howardj]

I hope we steer away from bit part players like Maxwell, Smith, Moises etc

I think our best chance is the 2004 blueprint - pick a conventional top six, and try to win with pace (not spin).

[Dan]

Originally Posted by howardj

My Squad of 15

1st Test
Cowan
Warner
Hughes
Watson
Clarke
Haddin
Wade
Lyon
Pattinson
Siddle
Bird/Starc

Reserves
Usman
O’Keefe
Starc/Bird
Johnson

I just think, for this tour, Haddin is the most likely player to score runs at number six – depressing that we have to go back to a 36 year old, but meh

Harris, if fit, would be a monty

Cowan
Warner
Hughes
Watson
Clarke
Bailey
Wade
Siddle
Starc
Lyon
Bird

Pattinson
Smith
O'Keefe
Johnson


Invers and co clearly like Bailey, and he's the closest style of batsman to Hussey we're likely to find (busy at the crease, hard runner, thinker .etc).

With Beer out, you've gotta give the slot to O'Keefe IMO. Better to have a mediocre second spinner who can bat than a mediocre second spinner who can't.

Pattinson walks into the XI at the expense of Bird if he's fully fit. I don't know if he will be for the First Test, but he'll tour regardless.

Johnson is going on the back of recent performance, hopefully he keeps his **** together and can still bowl.

Smith there on the basis that he's not as crap as Maxwell.

[uvelocity]

I think I'd honestly take doherty

warner
cowan
hughes
clarke
watson
khawaja
wade
starc
siddle
lyon
bird

backup
patto
johnson
haddin
doherty
quiney/d00lan/bailey pick one

rotate the young bowlers & johnson. tempted to play siddle/bird/lyon/doherty (would play quiney instead of khawaja in this case and get some overs out of him)

[the big bambino]

For mine its Warner, Cowan, Hughes, Usman, Clarke, Watson, Wade, Starc, Siddle, Griffin (Lyon and Bird).

I think its time for Usman and leave Clarke at 5. He's scored a crapload of runs there and is at the stage in his career where he'd probably be tending towards a lower rather than a higher middle order spot. Watson at 6 with the idea of giving him a settled spot rather than migrating him around the order. And yep I want him to bowl and tell him he's not likely to bowl as many overs as he did at Hobart ever again so stop ya bellyaching.

Reserves: Pattinson, Johnson, Doolan, Haddin, Doherty

Mitch is fit and bowling well plus he seems to have done ok in India previously. Pattinson should be fit. I like Harris but think his time has gone. He can't guarantee his fitness for more than 1 game so keep persisting with those who can. Never a big fan of Hilf I wouldn't pick him even if fit. He just seems too flat and friendly. Doolan's ave is par with Quiney and Bailey but he's younger. Doherty and Haddin by default.

[Spikey]

Originally Posted by Tangles

I'm sure I read an article saying he hardly bowls anymore. So have a spot and start rolling your arm over son?

he recently rejected all the advice given to him since he first turned up, didn't bowl at all for a month (bar a spell of off-spin when two left handers were in and NSW didn't have any other bowlers who could spin it away) so yeah i guess he isn't bowling that much, but he hasn't forgot about it.

i guess if smith does tour haddin would actually be the reserve batsman, which i'm cool with

[Briony]

Hopefully the shield matches will sort out some things. Wonder though whether they will look at preservation re. the pace bowlers bearing in mind the Ashes.

[Prince EWS]

Doherty's taken two wickets in four Shield games this season at an average of 80. Combined with a career FC average over 40, I'm not sure I'd bother playing him even if Lyon was injured and he was the only other specialist spinner on tour. I'd sooner bat Maxwell at 7 followed by four quicks I think, and that's really not an option I'm keen on.

[uvelocity]

I'd take any other bat over maxwell.

the conditions in india would benefit even dohers though

[TimAngas]

I hope CA soon quit this policy of playing all these bits and pieces players.

In general I think the kinds of players that are being picked are not ones that are likely to go on and win you the match with either their batting or their bowling.

[Spikey]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Doherty's taken two wickets in four Shield games this season at an average of 80. Combined with a career FC average over 40, I'm not sure I'd bother playing him even if Lyon was injured and he was the only other specialist spinner on tour. I'd sooner bat Maxwell at 7 followed by four quicks I think, and that's really not an option I'm keen on.

you do love maxwell though

[oldmancraigy]

Originally Posted by rvd619323

With Beer out, you've gotta give the slot to O'Keefe IMO. Better to have a mediocre second spinner who can bat than a mediocre second spinner who can't.

What exactly is it that makes O'Keefe 'mediocre' in comparison to any of the other spinners in the country? He's the only one of them to average under 30 at first class level - and in fact all of the others are either very close to 40, or over it.

Warner
Watson
Hughes
Clarke
DHussey
Wade
Maxwell
O'Keefe
Pattinson
Starc
Siddle

Johnson
Bird
Haddin
?Khawaja or Lyon?

I really can't see why we'd bother persisting with Cowan, a "batsman" who can't score runs. Khawaja is the future, but given the inexperience of the team I think we need to get someone in who is well versed to face the conditions in England. Dave Hussey fills that void, and can roll his arm over as well.
Watson is back opening where he averages 40+, makes sense to me....
Maxwell is in just because he can bat a bit. His off-spin is "handy", and frankly there's a struck match between his bowling and Lyons. Maxwell has 7 shield wickets at 25 this season. Either he or Dave Hussey have to be able to 'grind out' some overs and either will pose as much threat as Lyon.

The quicks are tough to pick. Siddle is a line and length workhorse and so is probably worth a shot. It's either him or Bird for that final position - I'd worry that the conditions won't suit Bird's swing?
Starc is a lock since he has the ability to produce a "wicket ball" out of nowhere, and that's one way for a quick to get a wicket on a dud pitch.
Pattinson just has that sheer pace to threaten in new ball spells, and can rough up their bowlers. Class act and simply has to play.


It's just so hard to win in India that I'd go for a deep deep batting lineup like this with 3 spin options to make the most of lifeless pitches.

I know there is buckleys that a squad like this would get chosen, there seems to be a foolish fascination with underperformers, but we need to bite the bullet and move on eventually. Debuting 3 guys isn't ideal, and if people wanted to argue for selecting Lyon and leaving Maxwell home I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I just can't see the point in a non-penetrating spinner (Lyon) who can't do anything else. Maxwell is more dangerous at first class level, I can't see why he wouldn't be at test level too? And again, he gives us that extra batting to compensate on the dodgy pitches!!

[Spark]

Dave Hussey fills that void, and can roll his arm over as well.

no no no no no no

O'Keefe in first XI

?Khawaja or Lyon?

no no no no no no

Maxwell is more dangerous at first class level

no no no no no no

Either he or Dave Hussey have to be able to 'grind out' some overs and either will pose as much threat as Lyon.

no no no no no no

My brain feels ****ed enough without this adding to it.

[iamdavid]

I'd bring Dave Hussey in for his brother, in spite of his age and poor Shield numbers this year. His game is suited to Indian wickets, he's a far more accomplished player of spin than the alternatives, he'd go some way to filling the experience void and I don't think he 'd be any less effective with the ball than Smith or Maxwell.

I also wouldn't be rushing to get Pattinson in the squad. Indian wickets won't suit him, no point risking his fitness for England where he'll be a far more valuable commodity.

[vic_orthdox]

Hussey is a wonderful player of mediocre spin; I'm just not sure of him against the best stuff.

Mind you, I'd probably back him against Ojha and Ashwin to do OK.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by oldmancraigy

What exactly is it that makes O'Keefe 'mediocre' in comparison to any of the other spinners in the country? He's the only one of them to average under 30 at first class level - and in fact all of the others are either very close to 40, or over it.

Warner
Watson
Hughes
Clarke
DHussey
Wade
Maxwell
O'Keefe
Pattinson
Starc
Siddle

Johnson
Bird
Haddin
?Khawaja or Lyon?

I really can't see why we'd bother persisting with Cowan, a "batsman" who can't score runs. Khawaja is the future, but given the inexperience of the team I think we need to get someone in who is well versed to face the conditions in England. Dave Hussey fills that void, and can roll his arm over as well.
Watson is back opening where he averages 40+, makes sense to me....
Maxwell is in just because he can bat a bit. His off-spin is "handy", and frankly there's a struck match between his bowling and Lyons. Maxwell has 7 shield wickets at 25 this season. Either he or Dave Hussey have to be able to 'grind out' some overs and either will pose as much threat as Lyon.

The quicks are tough to pick. Siddle is a line and length workhorse and so is probably worth a shot. It's either him or Bird for that final position - I'd worry that the conditions won't suit Bird's swing?
Starc is a lock since he has the ability to produce a "wicket ball" out of nowhere, and that's one way for a quick to get a wicket on a dud pitch.
Pattinson just has that sheer pace to threaten in new ball spells, and can rough up their bowlers. Class act and simply has to play.


It's just so hard to win in India that I'd go for a deep deep batting lineup like this with 3 spin options to make the most of lifeless pitches.

I know there is buckleys that a squad like this would get chosen, there seems to be a foolish fascination with underperformers, but we need to bite the bullet and move on eventually. Debuting 3 guys isn't ideal, and if people wanted to argue for selecting Lyon and leaving Maxwell home I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I just can't see the point in a non-penetrating spinner (Lyon) who can't do anything else. Maxwell is more dangerous at first class level, I can't see why he wouldn't be at test level too? And again, he gives us that extra batting to compensate on the dodgy pitches!!

I like O'Keefe, but people have been falling into the trap with his average for ages. I'm sure every other First Class spinner in the country would've absolutely loved to have their career figures boosted by this match on what was probably the most spin-friendly pitch served up for a First Class fixture in my lifetime. It was an absolute bunsen by all reports and Senanayake and O'Keefe combining for 15 wickets in the first innings backs that up. No doubt that you have to bowl well to take 7/35 but the other bowlers didn't get that opportunity on that wicket, and he still didn't do anything in the second innings.

He averages ~ 31 in the Sheffield Shield, which is still a very good average for a spinner in Australian conditions, but he's still very much an Australian conditions spinner in that he's just a tight stock bowler more than anything else. If the pitch is favouring spin and you need him to be a strike bowler he's not going to be able to do it for you unless it's favouring spin to the absurd degree the pitch for the match I linked above was and, again, by all reports it's something we'd never see an international level.

Last season O'Keefe took 9 wickets in 7 games at an average of 52; he was comfortably outbowled by the likes of Beer (26 wickets @ 26), Doherty (19w @ 26), Boyce (20w @ 34). Even part-timers Katich (10w @ 20) and Maxwell (16w @ 29) managed to not only average better than him but take more wickets in substantially fewer overs. His form has been better again this season, and an argument could be made to suggest that he's actually the best man for the Test XI at home if Watson's bowling because he plays the support role better, but in India you definitely need a spinner more capable of taking genuine wickets (and Watson isn't bowling anyway).

On your point about Shield average with the ball this season.. I like Maxwell more than most of this forum in general, but you do realise how much easier it is to maintain a good average when you're used in the role Maxwell has been for Victoria this season, right? I mean, he's taken seven wickets FFS. It's a whole different thing actually being used as a frontline bowler, and I think CA are probably a bit annoyed Maxwell hasn't been given more challenging spells, but it is what it is.

I'm not even going to dignify the Dave Hussey bowling thing with a response.

FTR, I've got no beef with O'Keefe being the backup spinner in India. It's probably how I'd lean at the moment. Ahead of Lyon in subcontinent conditions though? Nah.