***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

[NZTailender]

Mon Feb 4
04:00 GMT | 17:00 local
New Zealand XI v England XI
Cobham Oval (New), Whangarei

Wed Feb 6
01:00 GMT | 14:00 local
New Zealand XI v England XI
Cobham Oval (New), Whangarei

Sat Feb 9
06:00 GMT | 19:00 local
1st T20I - New Zealand v England
Eden Park, Auckland

Tue Feb 12
06:00 GMT | 19:00 local
2nd T20I - New Zealand v England
Seddon Park, Hamilton

Fri Feb 15
06:00 GMT | 19:00 local
3rd T20I - New Zealand v England
Westpac Stadium, Wellington

Sun Feb 17
01:00 GMT | 14:00 local
1st ODI - New Zealand v England
Seddon Park, Hamilton

Wed Feb 20
01:00 GMT | 14:00 local
2nd ODI - New Zealand v England
McLean Park, Napier

Sat Feb 23
01:00 GMT | 14:00 local
3rd ODI - New Zealand v England
Eden Park, Auckland

Wed Feb 27 - Sat Mar 2
21:30 GMT (prev day) | 10:30 local
New Zealand XI v England XI
Queenstown Events Centre

Wed Mar 6 - Sun Mar 10
21:30 GMT (prev day) | 10:30 local
1st Test - New Zealand v England
University Oval, Dunedin

Thu Mar 14 - Mon Mar 18
21:30 GMT (prev day) | 10:30 local
2nd Test - New Zealand v England
Basin Reserve, Wellington

Fri Mar 22 - Tue Mar 26
21:30 GMT (prev day) | 10:30 local
3rd Test - New Zealand v England
Eden Park, Auckland


Now is a good a time as any to start speculating, especially since the NZ Test team has more problems than most.

New Zealand v England | Cricket news, live scores, fixtures, features and statistics on ESPN Cricinfo

[Mixmasterreece]

God, where to start on that test team....

1. Watling (Hesitant to move him at the movement, but theres no other opening options)
2. Flynn (Unless he can play a nuggety, patient role in the top 3 he is of no use to that team batting at #5 - Im a massive Flynn fan but my patience is wearing thin)
3. McCullum (To be honest, Id rather he batted at 6 or 7)
4. Taylor
5. Williamson (Hiding him sure, but needs a chance to play against old ball to regain confidence)
6. Brownlee
7. Munro (As a batting all rounder - deserves a shot on his home turf (as)
8. Vetorri / Astle* (Massive weak area. Out of the current spin options Astle just gets the tick due to his batting. Having said that I wouldnt be opposed to Bruce Martin getting his chance based on Shield form)
9.Bracewell
10. Southee
11. Boult

12. McClenaghan (has shown more in a few T20s than Wagner has in 3 tests)
13. Guptil (As middle order cover - not to open)
14. Milne/Cachopa (as worthy as anyone)

Not a perfect lineup, but I'm not seeing a wide range of options apart from bringing in Ronchi or throwing Rutherford in at the deep end.

+ side is moving Watling up the order gives us the perception of a very deep batting order, and considering our #6 and #7 do most of our batting it makes sense to strengthen the start of our tail.

* I imagine the Astle selection is a bit of a pipe dream. Sounds like Hesson has told Astle he won't be in the side again until we tour the sub continent again one day. Laughable.

[Chubb]

Originally Posted by Mixmasterreece

6. Brownlee

Calling up Fat Gerry not the best idea... /Pedant

[jcas0167]

Originally Posted by Chubb

Calling up Fat Gerry not the best idea... /Pedant

Michael Vaughan had a good article before Christmas and had the following thoughts about the NZ tour:

New Zealand in February is a good trip for Cook at the right time. There will be lots of England fans out there creating a cracking atmosphere in the grounds so it should not feel like an anticlimax after the India series.

I think part of the problem in the UAE against Pakistan earlier this year was that the atmosphere was alien with few England fans and Test matches played in a country with no history of cricket. But New Zealand is very different. It is a great tour and a series I expect England to win comfortably.

England’s seam bowlers have skill levels that are higher than the New Zealanders. There have also been a few problems within New Zealand cricket. They have lost the captaincy of Ross Taylor after a split in the camp and may not be united.

[_Ed_]

Yeah, I remember seeing that at the time. But while Anderson is obviously a class above, I'm not sure I agree with his assessment of the seamers' skill levels.

[jcas0167]

Originally Posted by _Ed_

Yeah, I remember seeing that at the time. But while Anderson is obviously a class above, I'm not sure I agree with his assessment of the seamers' skill levels.

I think with Southee back our seamers are actually on a par. The difference is their batting - particularly top order which features Cook who is an all time great.

[BeeGee]

Originally Posted by Mixmasterreece

God, where to start on that test team....

1. Watling (Hesitant to move him at the movement, but theres no other opening options)
2. Flynn (Unless he can play a nuggety, patient role in the top 3 he is of no use to that team batting at #5 - Im a massive Flynn fan but my patience is wearing thin)
3. McCullum (To be honest, Id rather he batted at 6 or 7)
4. Taylor
5. Williamson (Hiding him sure, but needs a chance to play against old ball to regain confidence)
6. Brownlee
7. Munro (As a batting all rounder - deserves a shot on his home turf (as)
8. Vetorri / Astle* (Massive weak area. Out of the current spin options Astle just gets the tick due to his batting. Having said that I wouldnt be opposed to Bruce Martin getting his chance based on Shield form)
9.Bracewell
10. Southee
11. Boult

12. McClenaghan (has shown more in a few T20s than Wagner has in 3 tests)
13. Guptil (As middle order cover - not to open)
14. Milne/Cachopa (as worthy as anyone)

Not a perfect lineup, but I'm not seeing a wide range of options apart from bringing in Ronchi or throwing Rutherford in at the deep end.

+ side is moving Watling up the order gives us the perception of a very deep batting order, and considering our #6 and #7 do most of our batting it makes sense to strengthen the start of our tail.

* I imagine the Astle selection is a bit of a pipe dream. Sounds like Hesson has told Astle he won't be in the side again until we tour the sub continent again one day. Laughable.

You can't have your keeper open the batting.

[ohnoitsyou]

Originally Posted by BeeGee

You can't have your keeper open the batting.

Yeah you can, just give McCullum 30 or so overs every once in a while

[wellAlbidarned]

Yeah. If Watling opens then Ronchi has to come in and take the gloves.

[wellAlbidarned]

Originally Posted by ohnoitsyou

Yeah you can, just give McCullum 30 or so overs every once in a while

This just doesn't happen in international cricket, let alone with McCullum. If you're keeping then you're ****ing keeping.

[NZTailender]

State of the Nation

So I've been mulling over different routes that could be taken in regards to the composition of our? Or should we wait until after this series before giving Rutherford, etc, a game? Perhaps in England.

So I'm going to go ahead and throw some options out there, assuming that Taylor and Southee will be back for the series and that Ryder and Vettori won't be. It becomes a bit more obvious when all those guys come back.

So, side one: a little deviation.
1. D Flynn
2. B McCullum
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. D Brownlie
6. B Watling+
7. J Neesham/T Astle
8. D Bracewell
9. T Southee
10. B Martin
11. T Boult

Give Flynn another crack at opening, while Guptill heads back to domestic and, possibly, CC cricket over our winter. Neesham to take the all-rounder spot on a seamer pitch; has been in pretty good form and offers more than Franklin and Munro, for mine. If, for whatever reason, there's a bit of turn Astle would provide some good variation to go with Martin. Martin deserves a go, is currently 2nd highest FC wicket taker this season (behind Butler). Both Neesham and Astle picked with the future in mind.


2nd team is based on the form of Watling and the calls for him to go up the order. Flynn would drop out and Ronchi would sweep in.

1. B Watling
2. B McCullum
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. D Brownlie
6. L Ronchi+
7. J Neesham/T Astle
8. D Bracewell
9. T Southee
10. B Martin
11. T Boult

3rd team is to pick a current in form opener. It would be interesting to see if Redmond's ability has improved, and the same for Papps. Not sure what Fulton's injury time frame is but given he got the nod to go on the SA tour, if he's fit, he should be picked ahead of the previously mentioned.

1. P Fulton (A Redmond/M Papps)
2. B McCullum
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. D Brownlie
6. B Watling+
7. J Neesham/T Astle
8. D Bracewell
9. T Southee
10. B Martin
11. T Boult


4th would be more batting heavy, with one of Papps or Redmond to open with Fulton, and McCullum to drop back down to keeping.

1. P Fulton
2. A Redmond/M Papps
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. D Brownlie
6. B Watling
7. B McCullum+
8. D Bracewell
9. T Southee
10. B Martin
11. T Boult

Not too keen on hiding Willimason but if it were to happen

1. P Fulton/A Redmond/M Papps/D Flynn
2. B Watling
3. B McCullum
4. R Taylor
5. K Williamson
6. D Brownlie
7. L Ronchi+
8. D Bracewell
9. T Southee
10. B Martin
11. T Boult

Extra bowling options: M McClenaghan, K Mills (having a pretty good season with the ball - 14 @ 23.21 - and performed against England last time they toured), M Gillespie*, A Milne* (if they're fit)

So then after this series, ideally...

1. B McCullum
2. D Flynn/M Guptill/A Redmond/P Fulton/M Papps/H Rutherford
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. J Ryder
6. D Brownlie
7. BJ Watling+
8. D Vettori
9. T Southee
10. D Bracewell
11. T Boult

The future?

1. J Raval
2. H Rutherford
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. J Ryder
6. D Brownlie
7. B Watling+
8. D Bracewell
9. T Southee
10. T Nethula/I Sodhi
11. T Boult

Some older hands XI
1. BJ Watling
2. M Sinclair
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. J Ryder
6. B McCullum+
7. D Vettori
8. K Mills
9. T Southee
10. D Bracewell
11. T Boult


Stats from this season
Openers:
A Redmond 640 @ 53.33
M Papps 548 @ 68.50
P Fulton 504 @ 72.00
J Raval 380 @ 42.22
H Rutherford 329 @ 27.41
J How 275 @ 27.50
T McIntosh 239 @ 34.14
J Brodie 224 @ 32.00

Other batsmen:
C Munro 623 @ 124.60
L Ronchi 441 @ 73.50
M Sinclair 379 @ 42.11
C Cachopa 357 @ 59.50
N Broom 333 @ 37.00
D Flynn 241 @ 60.25

AR:
T Astle 282 @ 56.40 - 2 @ 152.50
J Neesham 275 @ 39.28 - 14 @ 34.78



Some of those line ups could have players interchanged between them and still work. Interested to know what everyone else's thoughts are on the openers, whether or not to look to experience vs England or start blooding some younger guys. Quite like Mixmasterreece's team too.

[Hurricane]

With regards who to open in the tests?

i think Rutherford should play some T20 stuff. he is a seriously good player.
I wouldn't pick him for tests - a) His SR in FC cricket (70) puts me off him as a test player. b) he is averaging 27 this year in FC cricket per your stats. Not good enough.

I don't think they will take the gloves off Watling and make him open. i think they will consider that too confusing for Watling. They told him to become a keeper and he has done so. Now a couple of games later they are saying don't keep just open. Therefore I would rule him out. Even though it might be a good idea.

Guptil has to go. 48 is not enough to save his career.

Any of our domestic openers who is doing well this year should get a go. If Fulton is fit then give him a go. Basically any living breathing opener who is averaging more than 30 should come into consideration.

I wouldn't write off Ryder from the team. I think if NZC smells the coffee they will realise that we really need to do well in this series or they may not be many more 2 match or 3 match test series.
If I were NZC I would send an SOS to Ryder.

I think Baz should go down to number 3 but because there is no one else he must continue to open.

edit - we should have kept Mcintosh. He got an 80 every series. Even though he failed in the other digs. At least he was determined.

[ohnoitsyou]

Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned

This just doesn't happen in international cricket, let alone with McCullum. If you're keeping then you're ****ing keeping.

Totally agree but its worth it if it keeps Ronchi out of the side

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

I wouldn't write off Ryder from the team. I think if NZC smells the coffee they will realise that we really need to do well in this series or they may not be many more 2 match or 3 match test series.
If I were NZC I would send an SOS to Ryder.

One network news states that Ryder will have a meeting with the management team including Hesson at the end of the month.

He is a possibility depending on what happens at the meeting.

[Tricia McMillan]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

One network news states that Ryder will have a meeting with the management team including Hesson at the end of the month.

He is a possibility depending on what happens at the meeting.

Knowing NZC it wouldn't surprise me if Jesse Ryder was recalled but they continued to give Ross the cold shoulder.