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Thread: ***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

  1. #7591
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Cricket | Daniel Vettori to play limited role on... | Stuff.co.nz

    Daniel Vettori will not be considered for New Zealand's test tour of England but could be in line to play his first one-day international in over two years.
    Still hope Vettori doesn't quit tests. Needs to prove that he can contribute with the bat again to be selected for home series, the next of which is the West Indies at the end of the year - should get some FC or A cricket before then. There's also a tour to Bangladesh in Oct-Nov where he could perhaps be an option as a second spinner.

  2. #7592
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
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    Tbh I was surprised when he gave it up because he's a far more effective L/O player. His Test bowling wasn't flash and his batting wasn't as good either as a batting all-rounder than it was when he was a bowling all-rounder.

    Bruce Martin deserves to keep his place.
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  3. #7593
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    Tbh I was surprised when he gave it up because he's a far more effective L/O player. His Test bowling wasn't flash and his batting wasn't as good either as a batting all-rounder than it was when he was a bowling all-rounder.
    ^ This


    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    Bruce Martin deserves to keep his place.
    Although he was absolute garbage in the last test, must be said.

  4. #7594
    International Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straw man View Post
    Still hope Vettori doesn't quit tests. Needs to prove that he can contribute with the bat again to be selected for home series, the next of which is the West Indies at the end of the year - should get some FC or A cricket before then. There's also a tour to Bangladesh in Oct-Nov where he could perhaps be an option as a second spinner.
    He's not a spin bowler. Hasn't been for years. He bowls slow left arm door knobs.
    Personally, I think it would probably be a good time for him to quit tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    Tbh I was surprised when he gave it up because he's a far more effective L/O player. His Test bowling wasn't flash and his batting wasn't as good either as a batting all-rounder than it was when he was a bowling all-rounder.
    He did it purely as a stats padding exercise (wanted Hadlee's record), which is the worst reason imaginable.


  5. #7595
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    ^ This




    Although he was absolute garbage in the last test, must be said.
    He wasn't great, no, but McCullum had some faith in him. It was possibly down to nerves of the occasion i.e. I'm expected to bowl my team to victory in my 3rd Test. Overall I thought he was impressive, and he looks like a Test bowler too. Reminds me a bit of when Graeme Swann came back - just looks to have his game sorted from FC cricket and the rest will just come naturally.

    However touring the seam friendly wickets of England won't do him a great deal of help, but that will be a good test as well, to get wickets on unresponsive wickets.

    I look forward to him playing on the subcontinent.

  6. #7596
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be surprised if that last test was an indication of what he's really going to be like at test level. When you get completely out-bowled by Kane Williamson, you probably aren't the best spinner running around. He's got himself on the tour to England though, and it's not like we have many alternative spin bowling options anyway.

  7. #7597
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5181 View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if that last test was an indication of what he's really going to be like at test level. When you get completely out-bowled by Kane Williamson, you probably aren't the best spinner running around. He's got himself on the tour to England though, and it's not like we have many alternative spin bowling options anyway.
    Full-time bowlers out done by part-time bowler shocker. There's a whole different psychology that enters into being when someone like Kane Williamson is given the ball, and that's why they're part time options to grab surprise wickets and not full time options.

  8. #7598
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    Full-time bowlers out done by part-time bowler shocker. There's a whole different psychology that enters into being when someone like Kane Williamson is given the ball, and that's why they're part time options to grab surprise wickets and not full time options.
    Or it's just a case of a decent part-timer outperforming an ordinary test spinner. Entirely attributing the difference in their performances to the different mindset a batsman has when a part-timer is thrown the ball would be naive. England knew what their job was, they didn't suddenly get complacent when Williamson was thrown the ball. He consistently bowled better areas than Martin. The latter bowled far too wide for far too long. He was given close to 40 overs in that fourth innings. That's ample opportunity to settle into his work.

  9. #7599
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Looks unthreatening when a team shuts up shop, but thought (when I watched) he looked good when teams were looking to bat normally against him.

    Slower decks made him placid when they are just blocking.

  10. #7600
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    TBH I thought he bowled well most of the time. Should've been given slightly more defensive fields initially against Prior to force him to not play his natural game.

  11. #7601
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    I thought he had major issues when he was actually trying to get batsmen out, he lost his consistency which is his biggest asset. It looked as if he was trying to dictate terms to the English bats (as you should when you're in a position like we were in the final Test) but he's probably a better bowler when he lets the batsman make the mistake or get bored.

  12. #7602
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFootPunch View Post
    I thought he had major issues when he was actually trying to get batsmen out, he lost his consistency which is his biggest asset. It looked as if he was trying to dictate terms to the English bats (as you should when you're in a position like we were in the final Test) but he's probably a better bowler when he lets the batsman make the mistake or get bored.
    I agree with that.

  13. #7603
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeGee View Post
    He's not a spin bowler. Hasn't been for years. He bowls slow left arm door knobs.
    Personally, I think it would probably be a good time for him to quit tests.
    If Vettori's batting could be at 80% of its peak and his bowling could be exactly as it was pre injury, he would be a good test option as a 'spinner' in countries where you don't really need a spinner, and we could select 4 fast bowlers, one of whom should be able to bat.

    It's Vettori's batting that I have the most doubts about - it remains to be seen whether he could even reach 80% of his peak. We'll see how he's going and what the rest of the test side looks like in 6-9 months. I don't care much whether he plays ODIs or not tbh.

    Martin definitely deserves more time, though his three tests here were almost a microcosm of Vettori's career. Start well, batsmen try to attack him and get out, he builds a small reputation, expectations rise, batsmen are more circumspect against him and then he can't get wickets any more. Hopefully he can work with some good people, can work out plans with McCullum and do the job better than Vettori could - then he'll deserve to keep Vettori out of the team.

  14. #7604
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straw man View Post
    If Vettori's batting could be at 80% of its peak and his bowling could be exactly as it was pre injury, he would be a good test option as a 'spinner' in countries where you don't really need a spinner, and we could select 4 fast bowlers, one of whom should be able to bat.

    It's Vettori's batting that I have the most doubts about - it remains to be seen whether he could even reach 80% of his peak. We'll see how he's going and what the rest of the test side looks like in 6-9 months. I don't care much whether he plays ODIs or not tbh.

    Martin definitely deserves more time, though his three tests here were almost a microcosm of Vettori's career. Start well, batsmen try to attack him and get out, he builds a small reputation, expectations rise, batsmen are more circumspect against him and then he can't get wickets any more. Hopefully he can work with some good people, can work out plans with McCullum and do the job better than Vettori could - then he'll deserve to keep Vettori out of the team.
    I didn't see him once bowl on TV -just saw him live from side on (Martin) - how much does he turn it compared to other spinners, such as Vettori and Jeets.
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  15. #7605
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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