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Thread: ***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

  1. #3016
    State Regular Jezroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wright View Post
    So is there an answer to NZs opening dilemma?

    Didnt bradman reverse the batting order in one test match? Crazy as it seems could we play 2 bowlers who could bat a bit as openers, then swap a bowler for a mid order batsman?
    "If at first you don't succeed, try and try again" - I'm sure at SOME point in the next 5 years or so we will have someone who can stand up to a reasonable level (hopefully Guptill can bring it around at some point).

    And on your second point - I don't think so, Tim. If we end up going down that road, we may as well pick two openers who can average 20 or so, and stick with them. You would think two bowlers who can bat a bit opening would fail spectacularly. Imagine Bracewell and Southee opening against Steyn and Morkel. We'd be 5/2 and have bowlers with broken fingers.
    Last edited by Jezroy; 25-02-2013 at 01:31 AM.

  2. #3017
    Cricketer Of The Year straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    No-one wants to open, it's a thankless task. You face the best bowlers with a new ball at their freshest yet still get held to the same standards as the hacks with good eyes who come in to have a swing at 5 and 6.
    Yes, everyone wants to be a strokemaker and hit million dollar cover drives, slashing cut shots and the occasional reverse upside down sweep for six.

    No one wants to be an expert at not hitting the ball, getting hit on the body, playing the leg glance and, unless you're particularly good, setting your technique up so that you won't succeed at limited overs cricket.

  3. #3018
    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Secondly, the state of the pitches made opening disproportionately harder than batting 4-6, which meant it was silly for domestic sides to actually bat their most talented players in the top order. It made a lot more sense on those tracks to protect the guns with more moderately talented players and stack the middle to lower order.
    Exhibit C: lower order + tailend runs scored in the PS this season.

  4. #3019
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Yet despite that we still have batsmen who do it willingly at the FC level.

    I think at that stage they're committed. From there they need to be worked with to ensure their techniques are perfect. The likes of Guptill would sell their children to be good test batsmen, but you wonder how much we can remodel his flaws without spending the rest of his career doing so.

    Rutherford, Latham, Raval etc still have time on their hands. We need Martin Crowe, Mark Richardson etc working with them right now. I know Richardson has mentioned a couple of times he's been "speaking with" George Worker during the HRV Cup, but I bet he wasn't talking 20/20.

    I also think middle order batsmen who, if we're honest, aren't ever going to be as good as Taylor, Ryder or McCullum move up the order for their provinces if there is room. Fulton and Nicol have already done this and deserve to be commended. It looks like Flynn is doing it now and I reckon someone like Neil Broom could try it too.
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  5. #3020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Yet despite that we still have batsmen who do it willingly at the FC level.

    I think at that stage they're committed. From there they need to be worked with to ensure their techniques are perfect. The likes of Guptill would sell their children to be good test batsmen, but you wonder how much we can remodel his flaws without spending the rest of his career doing so.

    Rutherford, Latham, Raval etc still have time on their hands. We need Martin Crowe, Mark Richardson etc working with them right now. I know Richardson has mentioned a couple of times he's been "speaking with" George Worker during the HRV Cup, but I bet he wasn't talking 20/20.

    I also think middle order batsmen who, if we're honest, aren't ever going to be as good as Taylor, Ryder or McCullum move up the order for their provinces if there is room. Fulton and Nicol have already done this and deserve to be commended. It looks like Flynn is doing it now and I reckon someone like Neil Broom could try it too.
    Good points Flem.

    They need an openers boot camp at the start of each season (or when time was available) to work on techniques etc, with the best coaches/former batsman possible surely it wouldn't cost that much?

  6. #3021
    State Regular Jezroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post

    It looks like Flynn is doing it now and I reckon someone like Neil Broom could try it too.
    I think Broom would be a good option to open at FC. He has done it at 20/20 level this year I think? Maybe he should do it in the Ford Trophy too?

  7. #3022
    Cricketer Of The Year straw man's Avatar
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    also, Nathan McCullum notably absent from test squad

    Xavier Doherty now unchallenged in bid for world's worst spinner title


    Edit: tests obv
    Last edited by straw man; 25-02-2013 at 02:19 AM.

  8. #3023
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straw man View Post
    also, Nathan McCullum notably absent from test squad

    Xavier Doherty now unchallenged in bid for world's worst spinner title
    NMac bowls too many knee high full tosses for my liking. I don't think I ever seen Swann bowl such a delivery.
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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    NMac bowls too many knee high full tosses for my liking. I don't think I ever seen Swann bowl such a delivery.
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  10. #3025
    Quote Originally Posted by Jezroy View Post
    I would have thought we would have been good at producing openers due to the fact that until the last few years, our domestic pitches have been quite hard to bat on (in the main), but I suspect it's (in part at least) due to the fact our domestic bowlers aren't up to much.
    Do Kiwis get much exposure to other First Class competitions these days?
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  11. #3026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Do Kiwis get much exposure to other First Class competitions these days?
    Guptill and Williamson both had stints in 2nd division county cricket last year. Both did very well too. And in Guptill's case, it seemed to genuinely help his batting in test cricket...for a couple of months.
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  12. #3027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    ...
    Rutherford, Latham, Raval etc still have time on their hands. We need Martin Crowe, Mark Richardson etc working with them right now. I know Richardson has mentioned a couple of times he's been "speaking with" George Worker during the HRV Cup, but I bet he wasn't talking 20/20...
    In an ideal world Jeremy Coney could help out too, he just ran through a number of technical issues Rutherford has on Radio Sport.

  13. #3028
    State Vice-Captain Immenso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    Guptill and Williamson both had stints in 2nd division county cricket last year. Both did very well too. And in Guptill's case, it seemed to genuinely help his batting in test cricket...for a couple of months.
    And Patel. In fact it is Patel's performance last 2 years in county cricket that got him back in blackcaps. Two NZ summers ago he was dropped at one point from the Wellington team by Stuart.

  14. #3029
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    No-one wants to open, it's a thankless task. You face the best bowlers with a new ball at their freshest yet still get held to the same standards as the hacks with good eyes who come in to have a swing at 5 and 6.
    In the side I play for, the options are opening the batting and facing the opposition's best bowlers, or batting in the middle order and facing the opposition's best bowlers anyway because you're coming in at 10/2. I'd rather take first pick and face up before they get their tails up...

    It's also notoriously difficult to get kids to open up in youth sides over here, and even then both of them want to be #2...
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  15. #3030
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    A refusal to open cost Vincent his int'l career. And a willingness to, gave Langer a great one.



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