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Thread: ***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

  1. #256
    U19 Debutant jcas0167's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    The reality with NZ's batting is they're struggling to get a regular lineup, and bat them in the same position. Picking duffers and hope they do a job, then shuffling the pack again, it's not going to work.

    Watling is likely to be the guy that covers what's left. McCullum should be your opener. Kane at 3. Taylor and Ryder are your 4 and 5 (either way around it doesn't matter too much). Brownlie at 6. Ronchi 7.

    That would be the strongest top 7 NZ can probably field. ...I can see Ronchi just coming straight in and playing as though he'd already played 50 Tests - doesn't mean he'll set the world alight, but he'll be a threat at 7.

    Vettori and the will he won't he situation is disruptive. I generally don't think NZ should look to play him as part of a 4 bowler attack, but NZ need to sort out a pattern to what they're doing. 6 batsmen + Ronchi + 4 bowlers is the best fit when Ryder/Williamson can do 10 overs or so. Realistically Vettori won't be around much longer and he's injury prone, so NZ should plan for the future - even if they decide to pick Vettori at 8 when available in the short term.
    Agree 100%. Ronchi is experienced and isn't going to be overawed coming into that role. He has a good strike rate and as you say, plays proper cricket shots. I think that line up would give us the best chance of getting consistent 300+ scores.

  2. #257
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    So, as our problems start at the TOP of the order, who do we think should be our openers for the England series? I think this is far more important than who keeps and if anything, should affect that decision rather than the other way round.

    I'm not even going to talk about McCullum not opening because it's ludicrous. If that's really going to happen then there's just no helping us. I hope the comments made mean McCullum will bat more aggressively as opener - I wouldn’t mind that.

    From vague rumblings from the NZ camp there are four options to partner McCullum: Guptill, Watling, Flynn, Fulton. Leaving aside other considerations, who do we think is the best bet for the two England series and beyond?

    Guptill: Has been horrible for some time. I've seen people write that the problems are mental - I disagree. He clearly has technical problems, some of which can definitely be remedied and some that probably can't. He may also have simply reached the limit of his ability (though I don't usually favour that sort of self-defeating explanation). Almost without fail he scores runs when he drops down a level, whether it be to flat pitches in limited overs cricket, or to domestic cricket. I haven't looked in detail at the runs he scored in county cricket however I suspect many were on flatter wickets or against weaker attacks too. That doesn't point to his mental approach being the problem. Test opening may just prove to be a bridge too far. Suspect he’s not helped by constant switching between limited overs and test cricket, however he’s a fixture in the LO sides so that won’t change. Would some time away to work on things help? Not sure, though I hope so. Good slip catcher. Results point to him being dropped however I still reserve the right to call the dropping a conspiracy to get rid of Taylor supporters .

    Watling: Current flavour of the month, which immediately makes me sceptical. Leaving aside whether he should keep wicket or not, is he really the best bet to partner McCullum? He seems to be a hard worker and has genuinely improved – he’d need to have considering he couldn’t score runs against Zimbabwe last time he opened. Or against Windies iirc. Has scored runs recently – even if they’re down the order or LO you can’t argue with runs. I wouldn’t say his defence is great by any stretch – doesn’t always defend with a straight bat, gets squared up by outswingers, has often in the past been guilty of the Williamson-like prod outside off, though perhaps less now. Is playing the ball later than he was. Got out to the new ball every time he faced it in SA (though so did everyone else). I get a few Guptill vibes with Watling tbh.

    Flynn: Looks like he’ll not be required in our middle order with Taylor returning and Brownlie scoring runs. A terrible tour of SA, even if you forgive his first innings slog when batting with Martin. Still seems unsure what sort of batsman he wants to be – either gritty or more of a strokemaker. ‘Gritty’ Flynn would seem to match well with a more attacking McCullum at the top of the order. I don't usually put too much store in this but the fact he's a lefty, in our righty dominated lineup, against England's attack, should be a BIG advantage compared to our other options. Does defend with an angled bat though. However does play the ball reasonably late, which is good (apart from that half-front-foot slash away from his body, which he sometimes has the discipline to put away). Can play the short ball reasonably these days. Has been a standout domestic FC batsman last few years along with Brownlie. I still rate him quite highly and had hoped the couple of fifties in SL would be a turning point. Does he want to be an opener? I don’t know, and it’s important. Average fielder.

    Fulton: Blurgh. Shouldn't even be considered unless he's moving like it's 2007, which I doubt because he's close to 34 now.

    Others: Rutherford might be worth a debut in another 12-18 months if he scores domestic runs. Raval may have the best numbers of an untried domestic opener this year, however that's not saying much. Needs to be far more consistent.

    Conclusion
    Though there's not a lot between Watling and Flynn, and even Guptill in my mind, I would choose Flynn. But he has to want to open.
    Last edited by straw man; 21-01-2013 at 05:11 PM.

  3. #258
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    pick sinclair

    and nice post straw man
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    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  4. #259
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    pick sinclair

    and nice post straw man
    Sinclair has already said that if he were selected this season, he'd make himself unavailable.
    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    I can think of a list of Sydney Grade posters who would contribute a better average post than Bahnz.
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  5. #260
    U19 Debutant jcas0167's Avatar
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    I would stick with McCullum and Guptill. Guptill should read David Trist's comments about standing too upright and going hard at the ball.

    If McCullum moves to the middle order, then Flynn can open with Guptill. Watling would shift to no7.

  6. #261
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Lol @ everyone reactions to Scaly comments about Ronchi being in the Test side. Clearly it's just his latest hobby-horse to insinuate that just because an Australian FC player has moved to NZ, he must be an automatic selection, in spite of the fact he wouldn't have seen him play here. The reality is there is no place in the test side for Ronchi atm, even if our batting depth is paper-thin ( and nobody is disputing that). Unless people are suggesting he's a better option than Watling, I can't see where he would fit in.

    Anyways, I've thought about it and while the following might appear a bit radical, this is the side I think would give us the best chance to compete against England.

    1)Rutherford (we need a left hander and Guptill & Flynn need a rest)
    2) McCullum ( yes opening, we have enough strength in the middle & its about the team)
    3)Brownlie/Watling
    4)Taylor
    5)Ryder
    6)Watling/Brownlie
    7) Vettori
    8) Southee
    9) Gillespie
    10) Boult
    11) McClenaghan

    12th man Bracewell/Milne

    I know it's a big call to leave Bracewell out, but he really hasn't produced much since Hobart and Gillespie if fit is a genuine wicket-taker. It does lengthen our tail somewhat, but then again when was the last time Bracewell scored test runs?

    McClenaghan has shown enough in the short-form to suggest he's worth trying. A solid lad who hits the wicket hard and gets swing and seam.

    I genuinely believe that bowling attack is our best chance of taking 20 wickets. Vettori to restrict at one end and all out attack from attacking seamers at the other.

    Milne is the other consideration, but happy to settle for the above for now.
    Last edited by Zinzan; 21-01-2013 at 09:00 PM.

  7. #262
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    McClenaghan has shown enough in the short-form to suggest he's worth trying. A solid lad who hits the wicket hard and gets swing and seam.

    It's a bigger call to leave Williamson (and Ryder) out, as well as to have Vettori bat 7.

  8. #263
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Zinzan I see your crazy team and raise you

    McCullum
    Vettori
    Williamson
    Taylor
    Ryder
    Brownlie
    Watling
    4 quicks

    #backto2011debates

  9. #264
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Ideal 11 for me:

    1. McCullum
    2. Watling
    3. Ryder
    4. Taylor
    5. Brownlie
    6. Williamson
    7. Ronchi
    8. Vettori
    9. Bracewell
    10. Southee
    11. Boult

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Zinzan I see your crazy team and raise you

    McCullum
    Vettori
    Williamson
    Taylor
    Ryder
    Brownlie
    Watling
    4 quicks

    #backto2011debates
    I like this

  11. #266
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    It's a bigger call to leave Williamson (and Ryder) out, as well as to have Vettori bat 7.
    Yeah, It wasn't easy leaving Williamson out, but who would bat him ahead of in slots 3-6 assuming you're not suggesting he opens?

    What about Ryder? I did include him and what's wrong with Vettori at 7?

  12. #267
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Zinzan I see your crazy team and raise you

    McCullum
    Vettori
    Williamson
    Taylor
    Ryder
    Brownlie
    Watling
    4 quicks

    #backto2011debates
    Lol, the more I laugh about you opening with Vettori, the more I think I actually like it

  13. #268
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Ideal 11 for me:

    1. McCullum
    2. Watling
    3. Ryder
    4. Taylor
    5. Brownlie
    6. Williamson
    7. Ronchi
    8. Vettori
    9. Bracewell
    10. Southee
    11. Boult
    Way to screw with Watlings head ! Just when he's publicly stated he feels more comfortable & confidence about his batting as a keeper-batsman, let's strip him of the gloves and make him an specialist opener again.

  14. #269
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    ^ Also, if people think Williamson was a bit too loose for 3, batting Jesse there worries me even more so.

  15. #270
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Srsly though if Vettori comes in and bowls like he did last summer it's time for him to move up the order if he's to play. There's being a containing bowler and then there's being a Franklin with a lower/moderate rpo. Me suggesting him to open was a light hearted prod but I still think if anyone has the sheer determination to make the move to open it is him.

    Of the realistic opening options I'd either just stick with Guptill and at least keep his world class fielding, or I'd tell Flynn to open for ND and hope he belts it then pick him, even though I think he won't be a crash hot opener.

    I don't think the younger openers are ready, I don't think Watling can do it and I don't think Fulton will succeed either, though obvz I hope I'm wrong and I usually am so good signs!

    Or we could take the piss and get someone up there to either block it or slog it, and provide something in another department. Tastle, NcCullum etc.

    Or Ronchi could open I guess.

    In the meantime we need to kidnap Turner, Wright and Rigor and start cloning.
    Last edited by Flem274*; 21-01-2013 at 09:26 PM.



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