***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

[Bahnz]

I don't think anyone was ever suggesting that Nicol should be selected ahead of Ronchi.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

Ronchi bats properly, he's just very aggressive and a horrible starter.

There is a whole world of difference between Ronchi and guys like Nicol. Who can't score significant runs against a half-decent attack without slogging. Then you have guys who can bat, but also slog a fair bit at times - see Ryder and Taylor.

Do not give me horse**** about me checking my facts.

No-one is suggesting Nicol play ahead of Ronchi though.

Ronchi should definitely play ODIs and he should in the mix for the Tests. But if Ryder comes back then there's probably no place for him in Tests right now beyond first reserve. I'll sure he'll get a shot soonish anyway but it doesn't have to be right now; the middle order depth is suddenly a lot better. He's not actually competing against Nicol, Flynn, Franklin or Munro; it's Brownlie, Watling and Ryder who are his competition and they should be ahead of him as it stands in Tests.

[Flem274*]

Nicol isn't in the test side and will never play another test though, so I don't see your point.

Your comparison to Taylor and Ryder is null as well. Ronchi has been mini-Ryder in the Plunket Shield, so if Ryder returns and fails, Ronchi's odds might be worse. Taylor is the best batsman in the country by a distance.

Ronchi scores fast with proper cricket shots, but his style still limits where he can bat in the side without being a hindrance. He's limited to 1/2/6/7. Only one of those positions is available.

Lets assume all the rumours are true and NZ has a full deck when they play England. Who makes way for Ronchi in the side? And lets be realistic about it, so you can't drop McCullum or go in with two bowlers.

[Mike5181]

Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned

3 quicks plus Dan is such a proven recipie for mediocrity. Southee, Boult, Bracewell, Mitch + Dan would be gun.

Ryder's capable of bowling ten overs an innings. He's bowled a lot for Wellington this season. Vettori + Southee, Boult, Bracewell, and Ryder/Williamson is certainly more likely to happen than Vettori at number six or Ronchi/Ryder opening so he can bat at seven.

[Prensel]

Vetorri to open!

[Scaly piscine]

God what a load of facepalm.

The Nicol comparison is to highlight the difference between a block/slog merchant and Ronchi.

I can't see NZ picking 5 bowlers (if we assume Vettori is a bowler). Also if by some miracle everyone is available then Ryder (if he's fit to bowl) and Williamson (who's about as big a threat with the ball as Vettori) are realistic bowling options. You don't really need 5 bowlers in that case. Better off picking the best 4 bowlers.

The odds of NZ having all players available AND picking 5 bowlers PLUS Kane and Ryder are astronomical.

[BeeGee]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

God what a load of facepalm.

The Nicol comparison is to highlight the difference between a block/slog merchant and Ronchi.

I can't see NZ picking 5 bowlers (if we assume Vettori is a bowler). Also if by some miracle everyone is available then Ryder (if he's fit to bowl) and Williamson (who's about as big a threat with the ball as Vettori) are realistic bowling options. You don't really need 5 bowlers in that case. Better off picking the best 4 bowlers.

The odds of NZ having all players available AND picking 5 bowlers PLUS Kane and Ryder are astronomical.

Pick a NZ test XI with Ronchi in it.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

God what a load of facepalm.

The Nicol comparison is to highlight the difference between a block/slog merchant and Ronchi.

I can't see NZ picking 5 bowlers (if we assume Vettori is a bowler). Also if by some miracle everyone is available then Ryder (if he's fit to bowl) and Williamson (who's about as big a threat with the ball as Vettori) are realistic bowling options. You don't really need 5 bowlers in that case. Better off picking the best 4 bowlers.

The odds of NZ having all players available AND picking 5 bowlers PLUS Kane and Ryder are astronomical.

Yeah but that doesn't need to happen for the middle order to still be all booked out.

3 Williamson
4 Taylor
5 Brownlie
6 Ryder
7 Watling

Unless you want one of those blokes or Ronchi himself to open then there's no place for him right now. Dropping Brownlie or Watling after they performed in South Africa would be silly and the rest pick themselves, barring perhaps Williamson.. and I don't think you want to drop Williamson for Ronchi.

Are you suggesting Watling go back up to open?

[Mike5181]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

I can't see NZ picking 5 bowlers (if we assume Vettori is a bowler). Also if by some miracle everyone is available then Ryder (if he's fit to bowl) and Williamson (who's about as big a threat with the ball as Vettori) are realistic bowling options. You don't really need 5 bowlers in that case. Better off picking the best 4 bowlers.

The odds of NZ having all players available AND picking 5 bowlers PLUS Kane and Ryder are astronomical.

You still haven't explained how Ronchi is a better middle-order option than Taylor, Ryder, Brownlie or Watling. Good luck justifying his inclusion over two blokes that just averaged in the mid 40s against the best bowling attack in the world in their home conditions.

[wellAlbidarned]

Originally Posted by Mike5181

Ryder's capable of bowling ten overs an innings. He's bowled a lot for Wellington this season. Vettori + Southee, Boult, Bracewell, and Ryder/Williamson is certainly more likely to happen than Vettori at number six or Ronchi/Ryder opening so he can bat at seven.

I'm not counting part timers. I think that our quick bowlers aren't the kind that can carry a normal four man attack, they all have plenty of bad days and need the cushioning of three other full time quicks. Having that extra guy seems to provide an extra mental boost meaning they can all go hard-out without worrying too much, rather than holding back because we're always one bowler down away from a disaster.

[Flem274*]

The only way Ronchi fits is if either he or Watling opens imo.

And making Watling open for a guy who is just being a mini-Ryder in a competition where Colin Munro is in God mode and Cachopa can score a million hundreds despite no idea against short pitched bowling is dubious tstl.

[NZTailender]

Originally Posted by NZTailender

2nd team is based on the form of Watling and the calls for him to go up the order. Flynn would drop out and Ronchi would sweep in.

1. B Watling
2. B McCullum
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. D Brownlie
6. L Ronchi+
7. J Neesham/T Astle
8. D Bracewell
9. T Southee
10. B Martin
11. T Boult

Originally Posted by BeeGee

Pick a NZ test XI with Ronchi in it.

If Ryder were to be available drop the #7 and put Ronchi there, Williamson and Ryder the 5th bowling option.

[Scaly piscine]

Watling is more an opener than a number 7. And Ronchi is possibly the best number 7 NZ have available.

With regards to Ryder I think 6 is too low. Unless he bats 4 or 5 you may as well just have him wherever is convenient - he'll be equally unsuited to opening, 3, 6 or 7.

[NZTailender]

Originally Posted by Mike5181

You still haven't explained how Ronchi is a better middle-order option than Taylor, Ryder, Brownlie or Watling. Good luck justifying his inclusion over two blokes that just averaged in the mid 40s against the best bowling attack in the world in their home conditions.

I don't think he's saying he's better than them; he's saying that given the mediocre performances and records of some of the player's we've picked, someone like Ronchi who is in form and actually has a good technique (apart from getting out early) is just a good a pick than persisting with those who continuously fail or aren't as talented as Ronchi. And he has a point.

[Prince EWS]

Yeah if you want Watling to open then Ronchi plays. It's probably the top seven I actually think has the most runs in it too but I've become a bit of a Watling fanboy and it'd be so ridiculously harsh to make him do it that I'd only be prepared if he put his hand up and said he wanted to.