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Thread: ***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

  1. #196
    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    I just find it hard to believe that a guy, who has made no firm commitments 3 weeks out from a start of a series, who by the admission of his own coach takes team practice about as seriously as an aethiest does church, and whose own manager said was probably not returning for the England tour, would suddenly decide that he's ready at such a time of turmoil and unrest within the Blackcaps.
    Would make Jesse the black sheep seem like a bit of a hero though to come in and help New Zealand after all the **** thats been happening lately.

    That isn't what the situation will really be but it could easily be pushed that way to the average punter.
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  2. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Sorry, I just don't understand the calls for Ronchi to make the team as a specialist batsman.

    I mean, Southee has scored a domestic century this season.
    Utterly ridiculous comment. I mean with sort of logic why pick anyone? May as well just draw names out of a hat right?

    Virtually every batsman NZ picks will look out of their depth. Ronchi has international experience and wasn't out of his depth. He plays properly, not your typical NZ blocker/slogger/both with blatant weaknesses. He scored centuries in a low-ish scoring game against the strongest bowling attack in domestic cricket. He has a history of being at least decent and you'd hope he's matured and reaching his peak.
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  3. #198
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Utterly ridiculous comment. I mean with sort of logic why pick anyone? May as well just draw names out of a hat right?

    Virtually every batsman NZ picks will look out of their depth. Ronchi has international experience and wasn't out of his depth. He plays properly, not your typical NZ blocker/slogger/both with blatant weaknesses. He scored centuries in a low-ish scoring game against the strongest bowling attack in domestic cricket. He has a history of being at least decent and you'd hope he's matured and reaching his peak.
    I think the most worrying thing in terms of Ronchi is that in his last four FC seasons in Australia, he only averaged above 25 in one of them, and in fact only hit a ton in one of them (he hit three that season, only one fifty though!). He even found himself out of WA side for periods; his First Class average had really come crashing right down before the move.

    He's always been an inconsistent player and a terrible starter so I think he could still go okay at Test level despite those baron periods - I don't think it's the quality of the bowling that's really going to be his downfall as such so if he's in form now he's worth a punt - but the fact that he'd been so ordinary for so long in the Sheffield Shield does cast doubts over whether his recent form is just a product of playing in a lower standard competition.
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  4. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I think the most worrying thing in terms of Ronchi is that in his last four FC seasons in Australia, he only averaged above 25 in one of them, and in fact only hit a ton in one of them (he hit three that season, only one fifty though!). He even found himself out of WA side for periods; his First Class average had really come crashing right down before the move.

    He's always been an inconsistent player and a terrible starter so I think he could still go okay at Test level - I don't think it's the quality of the bowling that's really going to be his downfall as such so if he's in form now he's worth a punt - but the fact that he'd been so ordinary for so long in the Sheffield Shield does cast doubts over whether his recent form is just a product of playing in a lower standard competition.
    Absolutely, but then he's competing against guys who can't even average 30 in Test cricket or debutants. In those four seasons he still averaged about 30 overall. He's a great fit for a no. 7 and I think he'd average low 30s in Test cricket, any more would be a bonus. He's not much of a risk because of his background, so I don't think he'd be a disaster in the medium term (obviously being a bad starter means he's prone to runs of low scores) and would be at least as decent.as anyone else likely to play in his place.


  5. #200
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Absolutely, but then he's competing against guys who can't even average 30 in Test cricket or debutants.
    No, he isn't.

  6. #201
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    If he's competing for 5/6/7 then yeah he's going to have to do a bit more than that. Still reckon we should shove him into opening [/goodthingI'mnotaselector]
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  7. #202
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    So how do we all feel about going back to Vettori + three quicks if it happens? After SA I think it's likely provided Dan the Man is fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Utterly ridiculous comment. I mean with sort of logic why pick anyone? May as well just draw names out of a hat right?

    Virtually every batsman NZ picks will look out of their depth. Ronchi has international experience and wasn't out of his depth. He plays properly, not your typical NZ blocker/slogger/both with blatant weaknesses. He scored centuries in a low-ish scoring game against the strongest bowling attack in domestic cricket. He has a history of being at least decent and you'd hope he's matured and reaching his peak.


    He's a self admitted dasher who doesn't do the whole blocking or leaving thing, and his performances to date back that up. He plays cricket shots but he's still a dasher/biffer/whichever slang you want to use.

    We've been over this before. IMO he doesn't fit in the side unless he or Watling open (and I really don't think Watling will make it as an opener based on previous) due to the way he plays. I rank him about 8th or 9th in the top batsmen in the country and because practically all of the players ahead of him bat 4-8 he needs to either keep belting it, show a new hand and get Wellington a draw, or he needs to take on a new role in the batting order if he wants to make the side. This isn't me being icky over his nationality, this is me trying to fit the best players in the country on one team sheet. If you're going to debate it though, at least check your facts.

    And ftr Ronchi wouldn't be the worst punt we've made on a middle order -> opener conversion. A high 20s average with lots of quick 50s would be a massive bonus on what we have now.
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  8. #203
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    3 quicks plus Dan is such a proven recipie for mediocrity. Southee, Boult, Bracewell, Mitch + Dan would be gun.

  9. #204
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    So how do we all feel about going back to Vettori + three quicks if it happens? After SA I think it's likely provided Dan the Man is fit.
    I'd be against it if you actually had four quicks worth picking, but with Martin seemingly past it suddenly and Gillespie permanently injured I'm not sure it's worth it. We'd be looking at Mitch or Milne really.

    Watling and Brownlie hitting runs along with Ryder's apparent return actually gives the team some middle order bats worth picking too, so I'm okay with it I guess.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5181 View Post
    No, he isn't.
    I think the problem for him is it's viewed as a keeper vs keeper situation, and given the current climate of the team, they're obviously keen to keep going with Watling in the lower order with the gloves. Which then begs the question, is he good enough to be one of 6 specialist bats in the side?
    Hesson and co. have already indicated he probably won't be playing vs England but will include him in the tour match to see where he's at. I imagine he'll become the number 1 middle order reserve bat & backup keeper should anything happen to anyone else. He's not going to open, so if he was going to play in England he'd have to rely on one of Williamson, Brownlie, Watling or Taylor getting dropped, being injured or not taking part in that series (McCullum untouchable as captain). I think he's a better middle order option than Flynn (and Flynn should be made to open perhaps given our lack of anyone for that role if he was to keep playing). If you were to throw Ryder into the mix for the middle order the headache is larger...

    But yeah, when you have guys like Flynn and Munro knocking about, I think Ronchi deserves to be there just as much as those guys.
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  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    3 quicks plus Dan is such a proven recipie for mediocrity. Southee, Boult, Bracewell, Mitch + Dan would be gun.
    Haha you're sold on Mitch M aren't you?

    We'd be dropping a batsman and moving Dan to 6/7 with your team and if Ryder makes himself available, who plays?

  12. #207
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Baz
    Raunchi/Ryder (only place they fit in)
    Kane
    Taylaah
    Brownlie
    Watling
    Dan
    Bracewell
    Southee
    Boult
    Mitch

    [/Ihadadream]

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I'd be against it if you actually had four quicks worth picking, but with Martin seemingly past it suddenly and Gillespie permanently injured I'm not sure it's worth it. We'd be looking at Mitch or Milne really.

    Watling and Brownlie hitting runs along with Ryder's apparent return actually gives the team some middle order bats worth picking too, so I'm okay with it I guess.
    I'm pretty dubious like Albi and I've been reminding myself that last summer Vettori went from innocuous to part time in all but name, but if he can at least keep batsmen tied down and bring back his batting then he plays, otherwise we might as well go three quicks + Bruce Martin. Looks to be a solid spinner, and imo can outdo Jeets and Tastle (not that its hard) along with providing a normal number eight batsman.

    Sodhi taking a storm of wickets @ 25 in the back half of the season would put the cat among the pigeons, since it would be tempting to get him in the squad to play against batsmen who are good against wrist spin. Sodhi Can Bat too.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    Baz
    Raunchi/Ryder (only place they fit in)
    Kane
    Taylaah
    Brownlie
    Watling
    Dan
    Bracewell
    Southee
    Boult
    Mitch

    [/Ihadadream]
    Jesse opening on a green top would be pretty funny to watch tbf.

  15. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    So how do we all feel about going back to Vettori + three quicks if it happens? After SA I think it's likely provided Dan the Man is fit.





    He's a self admitted dasher who doesn't do the whole blocking or leaving thing, and his performances to date back that up. He plays cricket shots but he's still a dasher/biffer/whichever slang you want to use.

    We've been over this before. IMO he doesn't fit in the side unless he or Watling open (and I really don't think Watling will make it as an opener based on previous) due to the way he plays. I rank him about 8th or 9th in the top batsmen in the country and because practically all of the players ahead of him bat 4-8 he needs to either keep belting it, show a new hand and get Wellington a draw, or he needs to take on a new role in the batting order if he wants to make the side. This isn't me being icky over his nationality, this is me trying to fit the best players in the country on one team sheet. If you're going to debate it though, at least check your facts.

    And ftr Ronchi wouldn't be the worst punt we've made on a middle order -> opener conversion. A high 20s average with lots of quick 50s would be a massive bonus on what we have now.
    Ronchi bats properly, he's just very aggressive and a horrible starter.

    There is a whole world of difference between Ronchi and guys like Nicol. Who can't score significant runs against a half-decent attack without slogging. Then you have guys who can bat, but also slog a fair bit at times - see Ryder and Taylor.

    Do not give me horse**** about me checking my facts.



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