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***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

Mike5181

International Captain
Probably, but reckon Ruds 2.0 deserves more than one chance before we make up our minds about that.

Watling's struggles against Anderson, Broad and Finn are a little concerning.
It's unlikely to happen anyway. Going outside the squad to bring in a player just to replace him wouldn't do his confidence much good. I'd probably still make the change, but I'm a bit of a ****. I'd make it clear to him that he's an important player for the future, and will be in and around the squads for most the series/tours later this year though. It should be understandable considering his List A record, even if he has improved since then.
 

M0rphin3

International Debutant
AWTA. Thought he should've rotated the strike a bit more to keep it 80+ throughout before hitting out. But tbf, he was just getting back in the groove so yeah.
Same with Kaneh, he ought to rotate the strike a bit more, his ton vs SA was perfectly paced.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
who else is actually in our squad apart from munro and ellis?

watling -> 5 and drop elliott or franklin. bring in another opener (latham?). that would be my only change. need a spinner to **** **** up in the ford trophy too to create some competition.
Wouldn't drop Franklin - he's been pretty good for us recently and never likes to have to hit out from ball one. I'm still suspect about Elliott but I think Munro is the only other squad member and they are much of a muchness.

Give Watling and Rutherford another chance but tell them there's no point scoring at strike rates of 30-40 beyond the first couple of overs. Don't think Latham would do any better as opener though. He'll get his chance at some point.

Good to see Taylor get some runs at last, although if we're being brutally honest, he should've gotten there a lot faster.
Agree an extra 10 runs from those 117 balls would have been nice, however we still should have scored 300 even without them. The rest of the top 5 scored 74(125) which is just bleurkh.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
How is dropping someone who has made 891 @ 55.68 and an S/R of 80 correct?
It ain't. Neither is dropping Morgan. For now, KP comes in place of Root. But the onus is on Trott to keep performing before the Champions Trophy.

Of course, KP should be the one to miss out if we're going to base it on performances.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
As it stands I would actually drop Trott, I know his record his excellent but the thing he does well is also the easiest thing to do in an ODI but no one else In the side was doing it when we had Ravi and the like.

Would bring in KP and have him open or bat at 3. If he, Bell or Root do not perform then Trott can just come straight back in.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Not sure 4 innings in Abu Dhabi is enough of a sample to be honest, especially as his S/R in those games was 84, which is hardly a huge improvement. I'd say the 18 matches in a variety of conditions, a lot of which were where the pitches made it less suited to batting against the new ball, is a better record.

KP has only ever opened on pitches which that could be described as flat (8 times in total), Bell's now done it 45 times around the globe.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
As it stands I would actually drop Trott, I know his record his excellent but the thing he does well is also the easiest thing to do in an ODI but no one else In the side was doing it when we had Ravi and the like.

Would bring in KP and have him open or bat at 3. If he, Bell or Root do not perform then Trott can just come straight back in.
Yeah, I wondered about that option when Trott was pottering along today until Root took all of the pressure out of the situation. Basically I feel that he and Bell did as much to lose us these two games as to win them. They certainly didn't seem to have the intelligence or the game to recognise that their strike rates just weren't what was needed in these grounds.

I couldn't argue against what you said really. Or, tbh, against Marc's stats which, presumably, refer to bell's return to the side last summer. Or even against someone arguing that KP isn't worth recalling for the brief period until he flounces off again.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
England batting records sine 2012 - Trott's strike rate is low, but that is admittedly because we've had to chase some small totals at times, but he hasn't made a score above 71 for over a year. The worst two performers of the current line up on that list, are ironically, the least drop-able in my eyes.

Like Marc says, I don't think the small sample size of KP as opener, or Root as number 4, should be enough to displace longer proven performers like Trott and Bell though. I'd leave Root out, despite his awesome start.

But isn't it good that we've got 6 players who have all be averaging over 40 in the last 13 months.
 
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wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Not sure 4 innings in Abu Dhabi is enough of a sample to be honest, especially as his S/R in those games was 84, which is hardly a huge improvement. I'd say the 18 matches in a variety of conditions, a lot of which were where the pitches made it less suited to batting against the new ball, is a better record.

KP has only ever opened on pitches which that could be described as flat (8 times in total), Bell's now done it 45 times around the globe.

It's hard to argue with any of that, so I won't try too hard. And I'll say it before you do - there's been plenty of times over the years when I'd pay hard cash for an opener doing what Bell's done over the last year or so. I suppose if my life depended on it then I'd drop Root simply because he's hardly played any of these games so there isn't much to base things on. But I do still think that Bell and Trott need to develop their games if we're going to be world beaters. Perhaps I'm giving Bell a hard time because I'm so disillusioned with his performances at test match level over the lat 12 months.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Yes, I think that may be clouding it a bit. I think the thing about Bell is he's done it a lot in England, which is definitely a different kettle of fish to the UAE or India. Ideally one of the top 3 would up the ante but the nature of the wickets they play on and with 2 new balls means the combined record isn't that bad and to be honest, the ODI team isn't doing *that* badly at the moment really is it?
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Even though it was a road and didn't swing - I thought our bowling needed to be better.
I thought 269 was not the worst score in the world.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Just been watching the highlights of our innings. My word, but Root's in good nick just now, eh?

The boy's always had a touch of class about him, but it was the boundary shots that caught the eye today. Added a touch of power.
 

KungFu_Kallis

International 12th Man
Watching this game felt like tortoise (eng) vs hare. NZ were slack/rubbish for 40 overs of their innings and just went mental for the last 10. Whereas eng paced themselves perfectly all the way through for a facile win. For some reason the hare was more watchable as colleagues crowded round my iSky feed at the office.
 

flibbertyjibber

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Can't believe people are still talking about Trott
They always will. Unfashionable player because he does his own thing and doesn't go big shot wise (does score wise though)

Would say that he would be held in a higher regard if he was playing for any other side but England at present as he would walk into every team at present bar perhaps SA.

Is it a coincidence that the upturn for England in ODI's came when Trott entered the side and was the glue for the innings?
 
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NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
who else is actually in our squad apart from munro and ellis?

watling -> 5 and drop elliott or franklin. bring in another opener (latham?). that would be my only change. need a spinner to **** **** up in the ford trophy too to create some competition.
Wtf, are you high? NcCullum is the biggest passenger in the side. Franklin and Elliott have both put in solid performances so far this year. But I guess since NcCullum gets 0-45 every match and is a sharp fielder and contributes a handy 20 now and then he should get a pass as he's the lone spinner. Except Williamson has outperformed him in that regard.

FFS
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
And since when has England been a powerhouse ODI side that they can afford to drop a guy averaging 50 in ODIs? Take a look at who you are and work on coaching these guys to up their SR (which isn't bad, ftr) rather than looking to drop them in case someone might strike at 90 or above (and if they do, will they average 50? FIFTY). Or maybe shuffle your batting order, or something. Jaaaaaaysus Christ, is everyone taking crazy pills?
 

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