***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

[Cabinet96]

Woakes into the wind is the same pace as Broad with it, heh

Pace is measured from the hand though, is it not? So the wind wouldn't really effect the speed guns, only how quick it feels for the batsman.

 

[grecian]

Didn't see Woakes in the first match, but has he got a bit more nip about him?

 

[Prince EWS]

I'd probably still leave a couple of overs of Swann, just for varieties sake. I still think Anderson is a better death bowler than Woakes though. He's slightly quicker, can get more reverse swing and is generally more accurate IMO.

I'd probably try and have something like this for the last 10 overs; 4 for Broad, 3 for Finn, 2 for Swann, 1 for Anderson. But obviously it depends on a variety of factors.

Anderson's an under-rated death bowler - or I'll rephrase and say he's an over-criticised death bowler - but the reason I'd try and avoid having him bowl any in the last ten is just how much better he should be in the first 25 with two new balls. I'd be looking at having him bowl 6, have a rest for 5 overs and the bowl the other 4 or something, just to take advantage of that rule change.

I'm just looking it from more of a "take advantage of a strength" angle than an "avoid a weakness" one I guess, which is unlike me tbf.

 

[Jarquis]

Pace is measured from the hand though, is it not? So the wind wouldn't really effect the speed guns, only how quick it feels for the batsman.

You've still got to run into it, I'm not on about the wind blowing the ball down

 

[Cabinet96]

Anderson's an under-rated death bowler - or I'll rephrase and say he's an over-criticised death bowler - but the reason I'd try and avoid having him bowl any in the last ten is just how much better he should be in the first 25 with two new balls. I'd be looking at having him bowl 6, have a rest for 5 overs and the bowl the other 4 or something, just to take advantage of that rule change.

I'm just looking it from more of a "take advantage of a strength" angle than an "avoid a weakness" one I guess, which is unlike me tbf.

I think the exact same applies with the rest of the quicks though, particularly Woakes and Finn, although admittedly, probably not to the same degree. It's a bit of a problem for England in general at the moment, in that they have four quicks who are all lining up to bowl heaps of overs at the start, a class spinner who you'd want to bowl in the middle, and not much left for the death. For all the stick he gets on here, it's not as hard as many portray it to be that Jade Dernbach interests the England management as much as he does. Hopefully if Bresnan comes back for the Champions Trophy he can add a second alternative decent death option to Broad.

 

[Cabinet96]

You've still got to run into it, I'm not on about the wind blowing the ball down

Yeah, fair enough.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

If NZ can aim for 110/2 after 30 overs, then setting a challenging total might start to look on the cards again.

That's only 5.5RPO.

 

[straw man]

Need to catch up here - we're about 30 runs behind where we need to be after 17 overs with 2 wickets down. Small ground so England's batsmen are not going to have any problem smashing 6s and scoring 280+.

 

[Mike5181]

Gradually getting up to an acceptable run rate.

 

[grecian]

I think the exact same applies with the rest of the quicks though, particularly Woakes and Finn, although admittedly, probably not to the same degree. It's a bit of a problem for England in general at the moment, in that they have four quicks who are all lining up to bowl heaps of overs at the start, a class spinner who you'd want to bowl in the middle, and not much left for the death. For all the stick he gets on here, it's not as hard as many portray it to be that Jade Dernbach interests the England management as much as he does. Hopefully if Bresnan comes back for the Champions Trophy he can add a second alternative decent death option to Broad.

ah, in every way he's more expensive than any other regular England bowler, so despite the snake oil, it's still really hard to understand.

 

[Cabinet96]

ah, in every way he's more expensive than any other regular England bowler, so despite the snake oil, it's still really hard to understand.

Yeah, but it's all good thinking that they're all better bowlers, but if they don't do as good a job at the death...Look I don't agree with their constant picking of him, but it's at least possible to understand IMO.

 

[Pothas]

Yeah, but it's all good thinking that they're all better bowlers, but if they don't do as good a job at the death...Look I don't agree with their constant picking of him, but it's at least possible to understand IMO.

Nah it is really not. Picking a bowler of that ilk maybe, but picking him is really not.

 

[Cabinet96]

Really don't see why Broad is bowling ahead of Woakes at the moment. One is your premier death bowler, while the other is someone who will grow less and less effective as the innings progresses. And it's not like Broad has been less expensive so far either...

 

[Jarquis]

Really don't see why Broad is bowling ahead of Woakes at the moment. One is your premier death bowler, while the other is someone who will grow less and less effective as the innings progresses. And it's not like Broad has been less expensive so far either...

They want Swann on now from that end and don't want to leave Broad 7 overs to get through later. Give him another one or two now, then get Woakes back on and save Broad for the end.

 

[grecian]

Yeah, but it's all good thinking that they're all better bowlers, but if they don't do as good a job at the death...Look I don't agree with their constant picking of him, but it's at least possible to understand IMO.

but they don't do a worse job at the death in general. I would think it faulty logic to pick him for just that, but it's just moronic logic when he get's hit massively in death overs.

I agree it's a problem though, and that's why England pick him, but it still needs to be ridiculed at every point possible, and I'm up for that challenge

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, but it's all good thinking that they're all better bowlers, but if they don't do as good a job at the death...Look I don't agree with their constant picking of him, but it's at least possible to understand IMO.

The other bowlers actually did a better job at the death than Dernbach though.

All of them.

 

[straw man]

IMO one of these two needs to start taking some risks to try to up the run rate. Current SRs of 48 and 62 are not going to cut it when Napier scores are typically 300+. I could understand the slowish start by Taylor and Williamson when they first came to the crease and we couldn't afford to lose another wicket, but we're past that stage now.

Surely Taylor can miscue a couple of 6s into the stands.

If we just score 240 we're simply going to lose.

 

[Cabinet96]

Lets be honest though, Dernbach hasn't made a full strength English ODI side since the 2011 summer, and has been dropped from this squad all together. He's probably 7th or 8th in line in the ODI side, and in and around the T20 side. I don't think it's that hard to understand why he's in that position, even if you disagree and think he should be lower in the pecking order, surely.

 

[grecian]

The other bowlers actually did a better job at the death than Dernbach though.

All of them.

stop agreeing with me robot.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Oh yay, lets talk about the batting powerplay. That extra man inside the ring will make all the difference!!!