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Thread: ***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

  1. #136
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    New Zealand would be crazy not to play Ronchi in at least short form cricket. Crazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Kohli. Do something in test cricket for once please.

    Thanks.

  2. #137
    International Vice-Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    New Zealand would be crazy not to play Ronchi in at least short form cricket. Crazy.
    Ronchi became eligible for New Zealand on January 13, having been born in Dannevirke but having to sit out four years since his Australian appearances. His fans will have to wait.

    Hesson rated Watling's wicketkeeping highly, knows he's working on improving aspects of his glovework.

    ''His keeping is going nicely. He's done everything that's been asked of him," Hesson said.

    That's bad news for Ronchi's backers as McCullum has a lock on the two limited-overs versions of the game.

    ''Luke's a very good wicketkeeper and from a batting point of view has performed well in the long form. Luke's asking us good questions.

    ''He'll be involved in New Zealand XI games against England and that'll be a really good opportunity for us to gauge where he's at."
    His fate's in his own hands.

  3. #138
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Is it weird that I'm actually much, much, much angrier about McCullum moving down the order than I was of Taylor being stripped of captaincy at the most ridiculous possible moment, leading him to withdraw from the hardest tour in the world at the moment and be replaced by a combination of James Franklin and Colin Munro?

    McCullum moving down the order is just, so, soooo stupid. A lot of what Hesson has said and indeed the posts in this thread from some members remind me of Athlai's post about what the SA commentators were essentially suggesting - that every single player should bat 4-6 except Watling. Shuffling the deckchairs doesn't solve anything and, FFS, you can't just bat every **** in the middle order. Yes, it's probably easier to bat 4-6 for most players, especially in South African conditions for example, but that doesn't mean your best 8 batsmen should all be fighting over three or four spots and you nominate three designated shunts to average 20 in the top order while quality players miss out. People keep referencing the Bracewell era in which he employed fringe middle order options as openers unsuccessfully, and yes it was a bit dire at times, but since then numerous coaches have employed "genuine" openers from the country and you know what? That's been equally unsuccessful. New Zealand just aren't producing players that are suited to bat in the top three at Test level, and the solution lies in technical development at both grass roots and professional levels, not in looking for the magic selection combination.

    McCullum has comfortably been New Zealand's best opener since Richardson. His performances with the bat as an opener have been better than what they were when he batted in the middle order, and that's without even taking into account how much more a top order player is worth to New Zealand at the moment than someone who can bat four or five. Moreover, in recent times he's actually seen out the new ball with ease and then got out to stupid shots against left arm spinners - how exactly is moving him further down the order meant to fix that? People have this weird idea in their heads that McCullum is actually a massive gun and should be averaging 45+, which is dangerous because it means they'll try anything and everything to try and make it happen. Fact is, he's not that good - he's not underperforming, being used in the wrong role or anything like that, he just is what he is. He's a decent batsman, definitely one of New Zealand's best six currently, but he's little more than that and if he can average 30-40 as an opener at the moment that's absolutely fantastic from a New Zealand perspective given how bad the top order depth in the country is

    Shuffling decent players out of the side in order to have the chosen ones in the roles they think they might like to play this week in a false quest for true greatness and propping up the top order with absolute prank cricketers is not the answer. If New Zealand want to improve their batting lineup, the first step should be getting all their best batsmen available and in the side, and the second step should be working on the actual practicalities of batting. There's no magic batting order that is suddenly going to transform this team without technical work and improved management. Forcing all the best batsmen in the country into a massive dog fight for three spots and giving the other three spots to ****s who aren't actually deemed good enough for the much coveted "he should bat in the middle order" praise is only going to make things worse.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 16-01-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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  4. #139
    International Vice-Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    rant, rant, rant
    AWTA

    Some mildly interesting pointless stats...

    Since 2000...

    Opening the batting (1-2)

    MH Richardson 44.67
    BB McCullum 35.77
    SP Fleming 33.30
    MS Sinclair 33.0
    MD Bell 31.75
    L Vincent 29.14
    TG McIntosh 28.46
    MJ Guptill 26.53
    CD Cumming 25.94
    JAH Marshall 23.71
    JM How 23.36
    BJ Watling 23.11
    AJ Redmond 23.00
    DR Flynn 22.00
    MHW Papps 18.53
    MJ Horne 16.75
    PG Fulton 16.25
    HJH Marshall 13.80
    RJ Nicol 7.00


    Middle order (4-7)

    BB McCullum 34.63


  5. #140
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Agree with the PEWS rant. Seems pretty stupid to want to move your best opener into the middle order, when you're struggling, with him as it is, to get a decent second opener.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    This English top three are cornflakes. They're not the most exciting thing out but they're pretty effective. Then the middle order are the sugar. Would be too much on their own but added to the cornflakes they add some much needed interest

    When KP returns he will be the banana..

  6. #141
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Now merge these threads Cribb. **Official** England in New Zealand 2013

  7. #142
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    High school cricket style stuff. I dunwanna opennnn it's tooo hard
    Exit pursuing a beer

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    High school cricket style stuff. I dunwanna opennnn it's tooo hard
    Oh my God, this. The amount of times I've had to captain a side where 9 people want to bat from 4 or 5, and proceed to whinge at me for the rest of the day if I make them bat anywhere else.

  9. #144
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    I was always the opposite.

  10. #145
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Me too. Was great because I was never usually one of the best bats in the team.

  11. #146
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    Has Ronchi been ordinary with the gloves over there? Don't think there was too many complaints about his glove work over here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5181 View Post
    I wouldn't call Watling's keeping tidy tbf. He was pretty messy in that last test. I'm not entirely convinced by Ronchi at this stage, but everyone seems to be convinced he's the best with the gloves in the country. It's all irrelevant anyway, as it looks like Ryder may be available for the test series if that meeting goes well, and that would stop any chance of a Watling/Ronchi combo at 6/7. That was the only way Ronchi was going to be included, especially when you consider Hesson already ruled out Watling as an opener.
    He looks a better gloveman than Watling, for sure. I still think Reece Young is the best keeper in the country, but noone listens to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    New Zealand would be crazy not to play Ronchi in at least short form cricket. Crazy.
    McCullum keeps in short form cricket.

    I guess he could make his way in as a batsman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Is it weird that I'm actually much, much, much angrier about McCullum moving down the order than I was of Taylor being stripped of captaincy at the most ridiculous possible moment, leading him to withdraw from the hardest tour in the world at the moment and be replaced by a combination of James Franklin and Colin Munro?

    McCullum moving down the order is just, so, soooo stupid. A lot of what Hesson has said and indeed the posts in this thread from some members remind me of Athlai's post about what the SA commentators were essentially suggesting - that every single player should bat 4-6 except Watling. Shuffling the deckchairs doesn't solve anything and, FFS, you can't just bat every **** in the middle order. Yes, it's probably easier to bat 4-6 for most players, especially in South African conditions for example, but that doesn't mean your best 8 batsmen should all be fighting over three or four spots and you nominate three designated shunts to average 20 in the top order while quality players miss out. People keep referencing the Bracewell era in which he employed fringe middle order options as openers unsuccessfully, and yes it was a bit dire at times, but since then numerous coaches have employed "genuine" openers from the country and you know what? That's been equally unsuccessful. New Zealand just aren't producing players that are suited to bat in the top three at Test level, and the solution lies in technical development at both grass roots and professional levels, not in looking for the magic selection combination.

    McCullum has comfortably been New Zealand's best opener since Richardson. His performances with the bat as an opener have been better than what they were when he batted in the middle order, and that's without even taking into account how much more a top order player is worth to New Zealand at the moment than someone who can bat four or five. Moreover, in recent times he's actually seen out the new ball with ease and then got out to stupid shots against left arm spinners - how exactly is moving him further down the order meant to fix that? People have this weird idea in their heads that McCullum is actually a massive gun and should be averaging 45+, which is dangerous because it means they'll try anything and everything to try and make it happen. Fact is, he's not that good - he's not underperforming, being used in the wrong role or anything like that, he just is what he is. He's a decent batsman, definitely one of New Zealand's best six currently, but he's little more than that and if he can average 30-40 as an opener at the moment that's absolutely fantastic from a New Zealand perspective given how bad the top order depth in the country is

    Shuffling decent players out of the side in order to have the chosen ones in the roles they think they might like to play this week in a false quest for true greatness and propping up the top order with absolute prank cricketers is not the answer. If New Zealand want to improve their batting lineup, the first step should be getting all their best batsmen available and in the side, and the second step should be working on the actual practicalities of batting. There's no magic batting order that is suddenly going to transform this team without technical work and improved management. Forcing all the best batsmen in the country into a massive dog fight for three spots and giving the other three spots to ****s who aren't actually deemed good enough for the much coveted "he should bat in the middle order" praise is only going to make things worse.

    I'd much prefer McCullum remain opener too, but Hesson's made a decision and there's little else to say about it.

    The fact that he's also ruled out Watling from opening means that we will have to get a domestic opener though.

  12. #147
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    New Zealand would be crazy not to play Ronchi in at least short form cricket. Crazy.
    His form in the T20 HRV Cup this season has not been good, and BJ Watling was New Zealand's best ODI batsman in 2012, so it's actually not that easy for Ronchi to make his way in. The domestic List A tournament is still to come, so if he carves up in that, he may yet make it.
    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
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  13. #148
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    Yeah McCullum has to open, and I think CW agrees there. It's his opening partner that we need to worry about.

    We're getting near the stage where NZC need to start telling the provinces who to open with, drop proven dead weights and start experimenting. It's not as though many of the provinces have stable openers this season either. The middle orders have been doing everything, and then the number eight comes in and blasts 50 every other game.

    It's like watching the Black Caps.
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  14. #149
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    I'd much prefer McCullum remain opener too, but Hesson's made a decision and there's little else to say about it.

    The fact that he's also ruled out Watling from opening means that we will have to get a domestic opener though.
    I still haven't seen anything that clearly indicates McCullum will move down the order in tests. The only quote from Hesson that I can find is:

    ''I don't think Brendon's game is suited to blunting the attack, but he applied himself. I don't think that's the role he's going to play best for this team,"

    Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but that could just as easily be interpreted as a change in batting mindset (go back to his 2010/11 aggressive style of opening) as a change in the batting order.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 16-01-2013 at 03:11 PM.

  15. #150
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    I still haven't seen anything that clearly indicates McCullum will move down the order in tests. The only quote from Hesson that I can find is:

    ''I don't think Brendon's game is suited to blunting the attack, but he applied himself. I don't think that's the role he's going to play best for this team,"

    Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but that could just as easily be interpreted as a change in batting mindset (go back to his 2010/11 aggressive style of opening) as a change in the batting order.

    Now that you say that, it probably is a case of journalists reading things the wrong way.

    We'll find out soon I guess

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