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Thread: Ranking Nations in terms of producing Batsmen and Bowlers

  1. #31
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    @SJS RE wrist spin in the game's early days

    I've read that in the days of underarm and side-arm bowling leg-spin was actually one of the more common styles, and then faded with the development of overarm. Seems like you're implying the opposite
    Exit pursuing a beer

  2. #32
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    SJS, which world class finger spinner did you include from South Africa in the 90s/00s??
    Faulkner, not finger spinner - leg spinner.
    Last edited by SJS; 18-01-2013 at 10:49 PM.

  3. #33
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Your earlier post, post 23 has a South African spinner from the 1990's - 2000's. I'm asking about the finger spinner discussion, not the leg spin.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Your earlier post, post 23 has a South African spinner from the 1990's - 2000's. I'm asking about the finger spinner discussion, not the leg spin.
    There are two finger spinners from South Africa,
    CJ Vincent (1927-1935) - 84 wickets at 31.32 in 25 Tests
    and
    Hugh Tayfield (1949-1960) - 170 wickets at 25.9 in 37 Tests

    I think I may have put the wrong era by mistake. There is no finger spinner in the last era but a wrist spinner in Paul Adams (although many consider him a finger spinner just as many consider Murali a wrist spinner)


  5. #35
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Yeah the reason why I asked was I couldn't think of anyone that would fit the criteria and after looking at the stats page Paul Harris is the closest to making the cut, but his average is over 35 so he doesn't make it.

    Overall with what SJS has done, I've enjoyed his written article but find the figures misleading and not the best way of addressing the question. The criteria rewards average cricketers who played lots of matches.
    Well I can put all the bowlers from all the countries and you will find all kind of bowlers everywhere. Every country has 4-5 bowlers per test so they will have bowlers as well as batsmen.

    This thread was to see which countries produced better batsmen, which produced better fast bowlers and so on. So a criteria had to be made to decide who was 'better'. The criteria for wickets per test allied with minimum average does that. The criteria for minimum number of wickets does not leave out those one would consider a MUSt in this list barring the odd figure.

    Just for your information, here are the bowlers with 50-74 wickets that got left out. I think it is fair to say that a majority of them are not of a caliber that would enable their country to be become listed as a great bowling side (even in the specific discipline) just by their inclusion.

    1. W Bates
    2. EP Nupen
    3. BD Julien
    4. G Ulyett
    5. KD Mackay
    6. Shabbir Ahmed
    7. JJC Lawson
    8. Mohammad Amir
    9. SJ Benn
    10. NG Cowans
    11. RS Cunis
    12. W Barnes
    13. DAJ Holford
    14. GJ Whittall
    15. Wasim Raja
    16. NJ Astle
    17. NGB Cook
    18. CR Matthews
    19. JS Patel
    20. C Kelleway
    21. Nasim-ul-Ghani
    22. CG Borde
    23. FA Rose
    24. SB O'Connor
    25. RD King
    26. AM Blignaut
    27. KJ O'Keeffe
    28. RJ Bright
    29. Asif Iqbal
    30. Khan Mohammad
    31. GJ Gilmour
    32. AMB Rowan
    33. M Hayward
    34. UWMBCA Welegedara
    35. Aaqib Javed
    36. GC Small
    37. RO Schwarz
    38. TW Wall
    39. JR Ratnayeke
    40. BC Strang
    41. R Gilchrist
    42. TT Bresnan
    43. PS Heine
    44. R Tattersall
    45. LN Constantine
    46. NBF Mann
    47. AD Mullally
    48. AJ Bichel
    49. KR Pushpakumara
    50. MC Snedden
    51. AB Agarkar
    52. GE Gomez
    53. ALF de Mel
    54. SP Jones
    55. Pervez Sajjad
    56. GH Hirst
    57. C White
    58. BE Congdon
    59. ME Waugh
    60. DW Headley
    61. K Farnes
    62. JM Blanckenberg
    63. KD Boyce
    64. JDP Oram
    65. G Miller
    66. NM Lyon
    67. WKM Benjamin
    68. C Sharma
    69. PJ Wiseman
    70. GRJ Matthews
    71. BAW Mendis
    72. FJ Cameron
    73. DG Phadkar
    74. SR Watson
    75. R Ashwin
    76. NM Hauritz
    77. Azeem Hafeez
    78. JH Sinclair
    79. LS Pascoe
    80. AEE Vogler
    81. RWV Robins
    82. E Jones
    83. DNT Zoysa
    84. WJ Whitty
    85. TG Southee
    86. AP Freeman
    87. ND Hirwani
    88. JD Higgs
    89. ER Dexter
    90. Mudassar Nazar
    91. PI Pocock
    92. Sikander Bakht
    93. WE Bowes
    94. Ghulam Ahmed
    95. Mahmood Hussain
    96. HK Olonga
    97. CR Miller
    98. HDPK Dharmasena
    99. Shahadat Hossain
    100. FMM Worrell
    101. ST Finn
    102. PA Strang
    103. AR MacGibbon
    104. BR Knight
    105. DR Pringle
    106. K Higgs
    107. DR Hadlee
    108. S Madan Lal
    109. RB Simpson
    110. CH Gayle
    111. JK Lever
    112. IE O'Brien
    113. RJ Ratnayake
    114. VD Philander
    115. H Ironmonger
    116. RB Desai
    117. SL Boock


    Of course they are bowlers of some merit, after all they have 50 plus Test wickets but they are not the bowlers (except the odd exception) that one would use as an example of a country's bowling prowess in the history of cricket.

  6. #36
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    The number 8 in that list, what a waste of talent
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  7. #37
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    WI just don't have the know how so far as bringing through good players imo. Just got lucky in the past with a lot of natural talent coming along at once.

    See also: Australia mid 90s - 2009

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slifer View Post
    I honestly dont get the jist of this post. If u mean WI arent one or two in producing top batsmen and bowlers now then u have a point but if u mean in crickets history then WI are easily top 3 in both quality batsmen/fast bowlers produced (esp when measured against tests played)
    Long term wise no they are not. They produced mostly mediocre players in their early years and does so right now. They had good/great middle years but that's exactly my point.

    And tests played is not a wise argument as even players they produced in the 70's and 80's play significantly less tests than players of today. FC games were the thing back then too but to a lesser extent than say the Hobbs era. And there are guys like Geroge Headly whom a lot of people consider an ATG from those days who hardly played that many test or FC games.
    Last edited by Inferno; 20-01-2013 at 09:13 AM.

  9. #39
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    To be honest only South Africa and Australia has been able to consistenly produce batting and bowling talent the past couple decades.
    England has done a magnificant job of importing talent though. They have also done their fair share of not helping in the development of W.I talent by restrictions of overseas players in county cricket.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  10. #40
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Yeah, the fact that the West Indies are incapable of producing anyone half decent is clearly the fault of the ECB. Talk about passing the buck ffs.

  11. #41
    International 12th Man Slifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Long term wise no they are not. They produced mostly mediocre players in their early years and does so right now. They had good/great middle years but that's exactly my point.

    And tests played is not a wise argument as even players they produced in the 70's and 80's play significantly less tests than players of today. FC games were the thing back then too but to a lesser extent than say the Hobbs era. And there are guys like Geroge Headly whom a lot of people consider an ATG from those days who hardly played that many test or FC games.
    Bro WI have always managed to produce world beaters regardless of era 30s : Headley, Martindale, Learie Constatine, H Griffith 50s: 3 Ws, Valentine, Ramadhin 60s: Sobers, Nurse, Butcher, Hall, Griffith, Kanhai, O G Smith (may he RIP)Gibbs, 70s : Viv, Lloyd, Fredricks, Roberts Holding, Kalli, Garner, 80s MM, Richardson, Walsh, Dujon, 90s Lara, Ambrose, Bishop, Chanders. I could go on and on. WI. 2000 left to be seen but the likes of D Bravo and K Roach look very promising.

    I suggest u read up on WI and cricket history b4 u start running ur mouth about things u dont know. WI were new on the scene early on and like ne team it took a while for them to find their feet but apart from Pakistan WI took to test cricket much better than most new comers. And as for WI players playing less FC back in the day being a 'colored' team in a world who considered u less than equals didnt afford many West indians the opportunity to play abroad heck one team in particular (RSA) down right refused to play the WI.
    Cause Slifer said so.........!!!!

  12. #42
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    Hence the American-African community produces sprinters after world beating sprinters while those whose ancesters were not considered strobg enough to be taken on those terrible ships, produce long distance runners.
    Not strictly true. West Africans are genetically more predisposed to being able to sprint, East Africans are more genetically predisposed to distance running. Those in the US and Carribean whose ancestors were sold into slavery would have, for reasons of geography, been from West Africa.

  13. #43
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Never said solely the fault, so many places to lay the blame. A through grass roots program and propper trasitional cocahing for juniors after they leave school would be a great start, but also showing that it can be a viable high earning career possibility would help.
    It's also caused partially by a cultural shift to some of the more potentially profitable and popular sports which has replaced cricket for some of the younger generation.

  14. #44
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    I blame the USA

  15. #45
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    wellAlbidarned half-baked theory #97
    Are so many of WI's fast bowlers these days fairly short because all the tall athletically inclined guys go for Basketball?

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