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Ordinary away? Go for the DRAW

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Is there an example of a Test team "playing for a draw" in both their selection and tactics, and it working?
5th Test: West Indies v England at Port of Spain, Mar 6-10, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Ryan Hinds had played earlier in the series as a #6 batsman who bowled a couple of overs here and there; I think he was "dropped" from that role essentially but he played anyway as a #7/8 batsman and bowled over after over of defensive left arm spin at the pads of the English batsmen from over the wicket. He batted #4 in the second innings because Gayle was injured but his selection was definitely one of "going for the draw" IMO.
 

doesitmatter

U19 Cricketer
Novel idea by OP..but the point is when your five best batsmen cannot prevent the team from losing how it would matter if your next not so good 5 would help in preventing the loss...i think it will not work..bad team would still end up losing 3-0..
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Novel idea by OP..but the point is when your five best batsmen cannot prevent the team from losing how it would matter if your next not so good 5 would help in preventing the loss...i think it will not work..bad team would still end up losing 3-0..
There are reasons why it could work. The Batting order will become important, but just because selectors pick the 5 or 6 regular batsman in the team, it doesn't mean they are actually the 5 or 6 best batsman.

If 9 or so are picked it enables:
a) the batsman who are in the top 5 or 6 who are under pressure to really knuckle down knowing that if they fail they aren't going to be in the top 6 when the team reverts to traditional form.
b) it gives the bats at 7 to 9 or 10 an opportunity to perform well and be in the best regular XI
c) it gives the other bats experience (while losing out on bowling experience which is a negative).
d) it IMO will improve some batters techniques as they realize that hitting the ball along the ground actually helps, you see a fair few soft shots these days, hopefully this mindset would lessen the soft dismissals.

Also, not a brilliant reason to do this move, but it is likely that fielding standards will improve which saves SOME runs.

Honestly though, if the team with minimal bowlers bowl negatively, have a third man, a ring field etc, the batting team will need to bat well to score runs and it could at times create some soft dismissals which a Herath or Ashwin (if India did this) could take advantage of.

BTW, just out of interest, if you think 300 or 350 is a safe lead to declare ahead with the fourth innings to come, how much would that increase if you played 9 or 10 bats?
 
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watson

Banned
Your suggestion NUFAN is the soccer equivalent of QPR playing 5 defenders deep in their own half, 4 mid-fielders just in front of them, and a lonely striker on the half-way line just in case a long ball balloons his way. And all for a solitary point against Manchester United at Old Trafford.

It's a cowardly tactic, boring to watch, and I gives me no respect for the team. I'd rather my team lose 4 nil but at least 'ava-a-go'.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Yeah Watson, I used the football analogy earlier and believe that this would be a genuine tactic if we did end up having a Test Championship.

I would rather my team ava-a-go too, but I think it would be brilliant to watch and less predictable compared to some current Tests at the moment.

I want to see another nation who is struggling with the ball to try it. BTW, there still is a chance that they can win this tactic. If the chase isn't that huge it is possible that this team can pull off a high fourth innings run chase, I mean if anyone is going to do it, its a team with 9/10 batsman.
 

benchmark00

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Yeah Watson, I used the football analogy earlier and believe that this would be a genuine tactic if we did end up having a Test Championship.

I would rather my team ava-a-go too, but I think it would be brilliant to watch and less predictable compared to some current Tests at the moment.

I want to see another nation who is struggling with the ball to try it. BTW, there still is a chance that they can win this tactic. If the chase isn't that huge it is possible that this team can pull off a high fourth innings run chase, I mean if anyone is going to do it, its a team with 9/10 batsman.
Yeah but they're 9/10 mostly ****, not test quality batsmen.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Yeah but they're 9/10 mostly ****, not test quality batsmen.
Why?

Look at SL's top six for the First Test match against Australia recently and add say Thirimanne, Chandimal and Paranativana.

Then they can play Herath and say Kulasakera which means that they are still showing some, not heaps but some inclination to win the match as Herath, Kula, Mathews, Dilshan have the potential to actually claim 10 third/fourth innings wickets.

I honestly think with increased batting lineups they would be very difficult to bowl out twice for the reasons mentioned earlier - competition for places and more cautious batting.
 

benchmark00

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Why?

Look at SL's top six for the First Test match against Australia recently and add say Thirimanne, Chandimal and Paranativana.

Then they can play Herath and say Kulasakera which means that they are still showing some, not heaps but some inclination to win the match as Herath, Kula, Mathews, Dilshan have the potential to actually claim 10 third/fourth innings wickets.

I honestly think with increased batting lineups they would be very difficult to bowl out twice for the reasons mentioned earlier - competition for places and more cautious batting.
That batting line up still isn't strong enough to worry a decent bowling attack who is defending 400+.

And you're not taking into account the general decrease in batting performance which occurs when batsmen are expected to bowl significant numbers of overs.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
That batting line up still isn't strong enough to worry a decent bowling attack who is defending 400+.

And you're not taking into account the general decrease in batting performance which occurs when batsmen are expected to bowl significant numbers of overs.
Most of the overs would be bowled by the bowlers at 10 and 11. Obviously they can't bowl every over, but in a 90 over day I would expect:

Kulasekera 22
Herath 35
Dilshan 20
Mathews 11
Samaraweera/anyone 2

So really its only Dilshan who has increased his workload, although at the SCG in the most recent Test he bowled lots of overs (made bugger all though, so you could be right).

Dilshan wouldn't open in this team due to the increased workload.

How many runs do you think Aus or SA would be looking to make against that attack in a day? Remembering ring fields, third man and negative bowling.
 
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benchmark00

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I'd expect 300 on day one and 400 on day two.

I know what you're saying, and in theory it's a much sounder concept than in practice.
 

Zinzan

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This reminds me of Glenn Turner's tactics as NZ coach/selector in ODI's in the mid 90s.

Not the strongest side going around, but you can't knock the batting depth. Shane Thomson; who was a Test no. 4 at 9, Gavin Larsen - no mug- at 10 & Dion Nash - with a Test batting average over 20 - at 11. Even Dipak Patel batting at 8 batted 5 or 6 at Test level.

2nd ODI: West Indies v New Zealand at Port of Spain, Mar 29, 1996 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Turner's basic philosophy was bat right down to 11 & have 6-7 slow accurate dibbly-doobly bowlers.
 

benchmark00

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Strange that you brought up Gavin Larsen, because I was only reading an old thread where Richard thoroughly believed Larsen was a better one day bowler than both Brett Lee and Waqar Younis.
 

NickDB

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
It's a cowardly tactic, boring to watch, and I gives me no respect for the team. I'd rather my team lose 4 nil but at least 'ava-a-go'.
Yeah it is, but I'd rather have my team draw 0-0 or lose 1-0 than look pretty and lose 4-0.

If I may mention Rugby I'd say the Springboks are a perfect example of playing ugly but winning. Yes I'd prefer if they'd played attractive rugby but at the end of the day winning is winning.

Going back to cricket, if a team is going to be outplayed and lose whilst looking pretty it doesn't help the team at all, their moral goes down and their spirit fades.

However if knowing that no matter what the other team throws at you you can stretch out a draw that will eventually give the team enough confidence to slow build up to winning a few. It also means your opponents have to throw the kitchen sink at you no matter how good they are, giving you more chance of a rare win.

To me fight and spirit is more important than pretty.
 

benchmark00

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Really???

Of course a draw isn't a win, but it's still better than losing.
Putting yourself in the best position you can to win and losing > only having a chance to draw or lose and drawing.


Just shows the different mentalities between the two cricketing nations, as I touched on earlier in the thread.
 

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