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Thread: India ATG Team- Open Voting

  1. #196
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    It is a far far better place ............ etc etc
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    I did a piece about the two of them last year, though I didn't try and make a comparison - 'tis here

  2. #197
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    I did a piece about the two of them last year, though I didn't try and make a comparison - 'tis here
    Very nice piece Fred

  3. #198
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    By and large, Amar Singh is rated above Nissar as a bowler. Nissar was faster, of course. I am sure I have written about both of them before on CC but I just can't find it. Here are some quotes though.

    Two of the best Indian pace bowlers came on their very first tour of England in 1932 - Mohammad Nissar and Amar Singh. Nissar was, probably, certainly for the first few overs, the fastest of all Indian bowlers, while Amar Singh, who was fast medium with a short run and moved the ball was, arguably, the best.

    ~ Trevor Bailey in From Lillee to Larwood

    Fazal Mehmood, Pakistani great, considers Nissar better, He writes in his recently published autobiography From Dawn to Dusk (2003)

    In the sub-continent, the most outstanding fast bowler was undoubtedly Mohammad Nissar. He was the fastest bowler EVER produced in our part of the world. He caused a sensation inthe English cricket camp when he visited England in 1936. Throughout his career he never bowled a bouncer. Whenever his captain asked him to do so against a well set batsman, Nissar declined saying, "This is not my style"


    Of the fast bowling of these two in the first ever Test match of India at Lord's in 1932, Swanton in his definitive History of Cricket wrote

    They lost the Test but their defeat left them , by no means, without honour and better bowling on a good wicket has not often been seen at Lord's than that of Nissar and Amar Singh . . . Nissar, a youthful heavyweight with a long bounding run, bowled really fast and could move the new ball either way, but the greater of the two was Amar Singh, at his best the most dangerous opening bowler in the world at that time.With his broad shoulders, strong tapering frame, and elastic delivery, Amar Singh made the ball move late in the air and like lightening from the pitch, These two were a nightmare to Holmes and Sutcliffe in both innings and but for Jardine, there would have been only one result to the match


    On Amar Singh's aggressive and unorthodox batting, Neville Cardus wrote after the 1936 Manchester Test

    I shall never forget the innings played by Amar Singh. India were still losing when he came to the crease and he at once began to cleave the bowling with a bat apparently transformed into a scimitar. This was primitive cricket., yet glowing with a style of its own, a beauty which had its own mysterious axis and balance. Amar Singh's off side strokes were like shooting stars - all wrong in our English astronomy, but all right splendid in some other dazzling solar system. Most cricketers would have gone into protective sheaths.


    Most England batsman agreed with that assessment that Amar Singh was the most dangerous new ball bowler in the world at that time . . . and remember, Larwood was at his prime and ready to unleash bodyline in a few month's time . . .

    to be continued . . .
    Great Work again SJS.

    The two reserves should be Amar Singh and Mohammad Azharuddin?
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  4. #199
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    With the benefit of hindsight should we have selected Amar Singh to partner Dev and Srinath?

    We had two opportunities to select him during the draft and didn't because we preferred Kumble then Prasanna. Were our decisions correct?

    In other words should we have voted for;

    06. Mankad
    07.
    08. Kapil Dev
    09. Amar Singh
    10. Srinath
    11. Prasanna

    OR?

    06. Mankad
    07.
    08. Kapil Dev
    09. Amar Singh
    10. Kumble
    11. Prasanna

    OR?

    06. Mankad
    07.
    08. Kapil Dev
    09. Amar Singh
    10. Kumble
    11. Srinath

    RATHER THAN (current);

    06. Mankad
    07.
    08. Kapil Dev
    09. Kumble
    10. Srinath
    11. Prasanna


    Which one do you reckon should have been our bowling attack?
    Last edited by watson; 10-01-2013 at 01:49 PM.


  5. #200
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Great Work again SJS.

    The two reserves should be Amar Singh and Mohammad Azharuddin?
    Even though other bowlers scored more votes than Amar Singh it makes more sense to have a quick in reserve as there are only two in the team. Azharuddin just missed out on a top 5 spot and seemed a favourite, so yes I agree with you kyear, Amar Singh and Azhar should be the two reserves.

    We also need a CAPTAIN. Despite the fact that Gavaskar and Kapil Dev would probably have a 'lovers tiff' if one of them is made captain I am still inclined to nominate Gavaskar as leader. If team harmony is paramount then Tendulkar is maybe the next best choice.

    Please nominate your preferred Captain (and I'll start counting votes again)
    Last edited by watson; 10-01-2013 at 02:04 PM.

  6. #201
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    Captain - Rahul Dravid

  7. #202
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Were our decisions correct?
    No. Amar Singh should have been in there for sure.

  8. #203
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    With the benefit of hindsight should we have selected Amar Singh to partner Dev and Srinath?

    We had two opportunities to select him during the draft and didn't because we preferred Kumble then Prasanna. Were our decisions correct?
    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    No. Amar Singh should have been in there for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Great Work again SJS.

    The two reserves should be Amar Singh and Mohammad Azharuddin?
    The response has made me write on a different subject and it may be interesting for some of you

    The importance of cricket history and literature . . .

  9. #204
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    I go according to consensus and best team balance, an additional spinner does nothing for the squad.
    Additionally I still belive that a bowler of genuine pace of Nissar would be a better addition to the 11.

    I agree though with Dravid for captain.

  10. #205
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    I go according to consensus and best team balance, an additional spinner does nothing for the squad.
    Additionally I still belive that a bowler of genuine pace of Nissar would be a better addition to the 11.

    I agree though with Dravid for captain.
    Its an interesting debate - Nissar versus Amar Singh. Clearly Nissar was faster while Amar Singh was considered by everyone, particularly the English batsmen who faced both, to be the better bowler. Clearly too, any ATG side would be strengthened by including either of them to partner Kapil with the new ball. Amar Singh is an all rounder of considerable merit and a fabulous fielder - both big plusses in a side, which over its entire history has been one of the weakest fielding sides in world cricket.

    I guess it would have to be horses for courses. In England, for example, one would like to include Nissar. Although both moved the ball in the air, Amar Singh was the type to get purchase off the wicket as well and would relish the conditions in England a bit more - we are talking purely bowling merits here. In Australia, maybe one would prefer to have Nissar I guess. On a wicket like Perth, maybe both of them at the cost of, say Mankad since in Amar Singh we already have an all rounder.

    Thats why it makes more sense to have a squad of 14-15 say like this one

    1. Gavaskar
    2. Merchant
    3. Dravid
    4. Tendulkar
    5. Hazare
    6. Mankad
    7. Kapil
    8. Amar Singh
    9. Engineer
    10. Nissar
    11. Prasanna
    12. Chandra
    13. Bedi
    14. Gupte/Kumble

  11. #206
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Cricketweb Australia All Time XI
    Victor Trumper
    Arthur Morris
    Sir Donald Bradman *
    Greg Chappell
    Allan Border
    Keith Miller
    Adam Gilchrist +
    Shane Warne
    Denis Lille
    Bill O'Reilly
    Glenn Mcgrath

    Ricky Ponting
    Allan Davidson

    Cricketweb West Indies All Time XI
    Gordon Greenidge
    Sir Conrad Hunte
    George Headley *
    Sir I.V.A. Richards
    Brian Lara
    Sir Garfield Sobers
    Sir Clyde Walcott +
    Malcolm Marshall
    Michael Holding
    Curtly Ambrose
    Joel Garner

    Frank Worrell
    Lance Gibbs

    Cricketweb England All Time XI
    Sir Jack Hobbs
    Sir Len Hutton *
    Wally Hammond
    Ken Barrington
    Denis Compton
    Sir Ian Botham
    Allan Knott +
    Jim Laker
    Harold Larwood
    Fred Trueman
    Syd Barnes

    Hedley Verity
    Kevin Pietersen

    Cricketweb South Africa All Time XI
    Barry Richards
    Graeme Smith *
    Jacques Kallis
    Graeme Pollock
    Dudley Nourse
    Aubrey Faulkner
    Mike Procter
    John Waite +
    Dale Steyn
    Hugh Tayfield
    Allan Donald

    Shaun Pollock
    Herbie Taylor

    Cricketweb Pakistan All Time XI
    Hanif Mohammad
    Saeed Anwar
    Younis Khan
    Javed Miandad
    Inzamam-ul-Haq
    Mushtaq Mohammad
    Imran Khan *
    Rashid Latif +
    Wasim Akram
    Fazal Mahmood
    Waqar Younis

    Mohammad Yousuf
    Saqlain Mushtaq

    Cricketweb India All Time XI
    Sunil Gavaskar
    Vijay Merchant
    Rahul Dravid
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Vijay Hazare
    Vinoo Mankad
    Farokh Engineer
    Kapil Dev
    Anil Kumble
    Javagal Srinath
    Erapalli Prasanna

    Mohammad Azharuddin
    Amar Singh

  12. #207
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    So NZ next??

  13. #208
    SJS
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    Here is a side made from the discards of these teams . . .

    1. Sutcliffe
    2. Grace
    3. Weekes
    4. Ponting
    5. Worrell
    6. Jackson
    7. Ames
    8. Davidson
    9. Lindwall
    10. Roberts
    11. Grimmett

  14. #209
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    Here is a side made from the discards of these teams . . .

    1. Sutcliffe
    2. Grace
    3. Weekes
    4. Ponting
    5. Worrell
    6. Jackson
    7. Ames
    8. Davidson
    9. Lindwall
    10. Roberts
    11. Grimmett
    Mitchell stiff to not get picked, especially since I know you're a fan.
    ~ Cribbertarian ~

    Rejecting 'analysis by checklist' and 'skill absolutism' since December 2009

  15. #210
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Herbert Sutcliffe
    Matthew Hayden
    Ricky Ponting ^
    Everton Weekes ^
    Neil Harvey ^
    Frank Worrell *
    Les Ames +
    Allan Davidson
    Ray Lindwall
    Hedley Verity
    Andy Roberts

    Choose Hayden over Mitchell and Simpson, because he gives a R/L H combination and his style is the exact opposite to Sutcliffe's and would complement each other. Also this would be an amazing fielding team. Bobby Simpson or Bruce Mitchell would give the team a leg spinner which would be handy.
    Last edited by kyear2; 11-01-2013 at 04:00 PM.

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