India ATG Team- Open Voting

[fredfertang]

I did a piece about the two of them last year, though I didn't try and make a comparison - 'tis here

[SJS]

Originally Posted by fredfertang

I did a piece about the two of them last year, though I didn't try and make a comparison - 'tis here

Very nice piece Fred

[kyear2]

Originally Posted by SJS

By and large, Amar Singh is rated above Nissar as a bowler. Nissar was faster, of course. I am sure I have written about both of them before on CC but I just can't find it. Here are some quotes though.

Two of the best Indian pace bowlers came on their very first tour of England in 1932 - Mohammad Nissar and Amar Singh. Nissar was, probably, certainly for the first few overs, the fastest of all Indian bowlers, while Amar Singh, who was fast medium with a short run and moved the ball was, arguably, the best.

~ Trevor Bailey in From Lillee to Larwood

Fazal Mehmood, Pakistani great, considers Nissar better, He writes in his recently published autobiography From Dawn to Dusk (2003)

In the sub-continent, the most outstanding fast bowler was undoubtedly Mohammad Nissar. He was the fastest bowler EVER produced in our part of the world. He caused a sensation inthe English cricket camp when he visited England in 1936. Throughout his career he never bowled a bouncer. Whenever his captain asked him to do so against a well set batsman, Nissar declined saying, "This is not my style"

Of the fast bowling of these two in the first ever Test match of India at Lord's in 1932, Swanton in his definitive History of Cricket wrote

They lost the Test but their defeat left them , by no means, without honour and better bowling on a good wicket has not often been seen at Lord's than that of Nissar and Amar Singh . . . Nissar, a youthful heavyweight with a long bounding run, bowled really fast and could move the new ball either way, but the greater of the two was Amar Singh, at his best the most dangerous opening bowler in the world at that time.With his broad shoulders, strong tapering frame, and elastic delivery, Amar Singh made the ball move late in the air and like lightening from the pitch, These two were a nightmare to Holmes and Sutcliffe in both innings and but for Jardine, there would have been only one result to the match

On Amar Singh's aggressive and unorthodox batting, Neville Cardus wrote after the 1936 Manchester Test

I shall never forget the innings played by Amar Singh. India were still losing when he came to the crease and he at once began to cleave the bowling with a bat apparently transformed into a scimitar. This was primitive cricket., yet glowing with a style of its own, a beauty which had its own mysterious axis and balance. Amar Singh's off side strokes were like shooting stars - all wrong in our English astronomy, but all right splendid in some other dazzling solar system. Most cricketers would have gone into protective sheaths.

Most England batsman agreed with that assessment that Amar Singh was the most dangerous new ball bowler in the world at that time . . . and remember, Larwood was at his prime and ready to unleash bodyline in a few month's time . . .

to be continued . . .

Great Work again SJS.

The two reserves should be Amar Singh and Mohammad Azharuddin?

[watson]

With the benefit of hindsight should we have selected Amar Singh to partner Dev and Srinath?

We had two opportunities to select him during the draft and didn't because we preferred Kumble then Prasanna. Were our decisions correct?

In other words should we have voted for;

06. Mankad
07.
08. Kapil Dev
09. Amar Singh
10. Srinath
11. Prasanna

OR?

06. Mankad
07.
08. Kapil Dev
09. Amar Singh
10. Kumble
11. Prasanna

OR?

06. Mankad
07.
08. Kapil Dev
09. Amar Singh
10. Kumble
11. Srinath

RATHER THAN (current);

06. Mankad
07.
08. Kapil Dev
09. Kumble
10. Srinath
11. Prasanna


Which one do you reckon should have been our bowling attack?

[watson]

Originally Posted by kyear2

Great Work again SJS.

The two reserves should be Amar Singh and Mohammad Azharuddin?

Even though other bowlers scored more votes than Amar Singh it makes more sense to have a quick in reserve as there are only two in the team. Azharuddin just missed out on a top 5 spot and seemed a favourite, so yes I agree with you kyear, Amar Singh and Azhar should be the two reserves.

We also need a CAPTAIN. Despite the fact that Gavaskar and Kapil Dev would probably have a 'lovers tiff' if one of them is made captain I am still inclined to nominate Gavaskar as leader. If team harmony is paramount then Tendulkar is maybe the next best choice.

Please nominate your preferred Captain (and I'll start counting votes again)

[Sarun]

Captain - Rahul Dravid

[NUFAN]

Originally Posted by watson

Were our decisions correct?

No. Amar Singh should have been in there for sure.

[SJS]

Originally Posted by watson

With the benefit of hindsight should we have selected Amar Singh to partner Dev and Srinath?

We had two opportunities to select him during the draft and didn't because we preferred Kumble then Prasanna. Were our decisions correct?

Originally Posted by NUFAN

No. Amar Singh should have been in there for sure.

Originally Posted by kyear2

Great Work again SJS.

The two reserves should be Amar Singh and Mohammad Azharuddin?

The response has made me write on a different subject and it may be interesting for some of you

The importance of cricket history and literature . . .

[kyear2]

I go according to consensus and best team balance, an additional spinner does nothing for the squad.
Additionally I still belive that a bowler of genuine pace of Nissar would be a better addition to the 11.

I agree though with Dravid for captain.

[SJS]

Originally Posted by kyear2

I go according to consensus and best team balance, an additional spinner does nothing for the squad.
Additionally I still belive that a bowler of genuine pace of Nissar would be a better addition to the 11.

I agree though with Dravid for captain.

Its an interesting debate - Nissar versus Amar Singh. Clearly Nissar was faster while Amar Singh was considered by everyone, particularly the English batsmen who faced both, to be the better bowler. Clearly too, any ATG side would be strengthened by including either of them to partner Kapil with the new ball. Amar Singh is an all rounder of considerable merit and a fabulous fielder - both big plusses in a side, which over its entire history has been one of the weakest fielding sides in world cricket.

I guess it would have to be horses for courses. In England, for example, one would like to include Nissar. Although both moved the ball in the air, Amar Singh was the type to get purchase off the wicket as well and would relish the conditions in England a bit more - we are talking purely bowling merits here. In Australia, maybe one would prefer to have Nissar I guess. On a wicket like Perth, maybe both of them at the cost of, say Mankad since in Amar Singh we already have an all rounder.

Thats why it makes more sense to have a squad of 14-15 say like this one

1. Gavaskar
2. Merchant
3. Dravid
4. Tendulkar
5. Hazare
6. Mankad
7. Kapil
8. Amar Singh
9. Engineer
10. Nissar
11. Prasanna
12. Chandra
13. Bedi
14. Gupte/Kumble

[kyear2]

Cricketweb Australia All Time XI
Victor Trumper
Arthur Morris
Sir Donald Bradman *
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Denis Lille
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn Mcgrath

Ricky Ponting
Allan Davidson

Cricketweb West Indies All Time XI
Gordon Greenidge
Sir Conrad Hunte
George Headley *
Sir I.V.A. Richards
Brian Lara
Sir Garfield Sobers
Sir Clyde Walcott +
Malcolm Marshall
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose
Joel Garner

Frank Worrell
Lance Gibbs

Cricketweb England All Time XI
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sir Len Hutton *
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Sir Ian Botham
Allan Knott +
Jim Laker
Harold Larwood
Fred Trueman
Syd Barnes

Hedley Verity
Kevin Pietersen

Cricketweb South Africa All Time XI
Barry Richards
Graeme Smith *
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Mike Procter
John Waite +
Dale Steyn
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

Shaun Pollock
Herbie Taylor

Cricketweb Pakistan All Time XI
Hanif Mohammad
Saeed Anwar
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Imran Khan *
Rashid Latif +
Wasim Akram
Fazal Mahmood
Waqar Younis

Mohammad Yousuf
Saqlain Mushtaq

Cricketweb India All Time XI
Sunil Gavaskar
Vijay Merchant
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Javagal Srinath
Erapalli Prasanna

Mohammad Azharuddin
Amar Singh

[NUFAN]

So NZ next??

[SJS]

Here is a side made from the discards of these teams . . .

1. Sutcliffe
2. Grace
3. Weekes
4. Ponting
5. Worrell
6. Jackson
7. Ames
8. Davidson
9. Lindwall
10. Roberts
11. Grimmett

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by SJS

Here is a side made from the discards of these teams . . .

1. Sutcliffe
2. Grace
3. Weekes
4. Ponting
5. Worrell
6. Jackson
7. Ames
8. Davidson
9. Lindwall
10. Roberts
11. Grimmett

Mitchell stiff to not get picked, especially since I know you're a fan.

[kyear2]

Herbert Sutcliffe
Matthew Hayden
Ricky Ponting ^
Everton Weekes ^
Neil Harvey ^
Frank Worrell *
Les Ames +
Allan Davidson
Ray Lindwall
Hedley Verity
Andy Roberts

Choose Hayden over Mitchell and Simpson, because he gives a R/L H combination and his style is the exact opposite to Sutcliffe's and would complement each other. Also this would be an amazing fielding team. Bobby Simpson or Bruce Mitchell would give the team a leg spinner which would be handy.