|View Poll Results: Who are the two best opening bowlers of the Tendulkar era?|
|Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll|
||LinkBack||Thread Tools||Display Modes|
|29-12-2012, 05:57 AM||#1 (permalink)|
Join Date: Jun 2006
Poll 1: Opening bowlers for the Best ODI XI from the Tendulkar Era
Choose two from these fast bowlers who opened the bowling in at least 75 games for their teams between '89 and '12.
|29-12-2012, 06:07 AM||#3 (permalink)|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Isnít it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? Ė Douglas Adams
Last edited by Teja.; 29-12-2012 at 06:12 AM.
|29-12-2012, 06:19 AM||#6 (permalink)|
Hall of Fame Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
chose Akram and McG
And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW
Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta
|29-12-2012, 06:22 AM||#7 (permalink)|
Join Date: Jun 2006
|29-12-2012, 09:47 AM||#14 (permalink)|
Hall of Fame Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Mumbai India
My take is that one can not take just one stat to make this choice. It has to be a combination. This is to say that the economy rate alone can not be the criteria for the limited overs version, wicket taking is equally important. So here goes . . .
1. Wickets per match
This is an important criteria in both Test and odi formats. The top three bowlers in this list will take, on average 5.5 wickets every match. This is a massive boost for any side wanting to be the dominant force around the cricketing world. Unfortunately, it is not often used by fans. Longevity is responsible for some of the aggregate records but if the "per Test" performance suffers inordinately then it is not necessarily a good thing be it bowling or batting.
Bowler Matches Wkts W/Match Bond 81 147 1.81 Lee 221 380 1.72 Donald 164 272 1.66 Waqar 254 409 1.61 McGrath 250 381 1.52 Ntini 173 265 1.53 Steyn 66 96 1.45 Wasim 274 389 1.42 Shoaib 163 217 1.33 Pollock 303 387 1.28 Bishop 73 80 1.10 Ambrose 151 164 1.09 Walsh 122 130 1.07
This like centuries is what often identifies match defining performances. Bowlers who take five fors and four fors more regularly are most likely to help sides win more often. Of course a player could play a couple of hundred more games and have more such hauls - hence Matches per four for . . .
Bowler M/4for Bond 7.4 Waqar 9.4 Lee 9.6 Donald 12.6 Ntini 14.4 Bishop 14.6 Wasim 15.2 McGrath 15.6 Shoaib 16.3 Steyn 16.5 Pollock 17.8 Ambrose 30.2 Walsh 61.0
This is a vital criteria for strike bowlers. The ones the captain relies upon to get wickets quickly and in clusters as well. This criteria is even more important for the quicker bowlers. The greatest of fast bowlers have had lower strike rates. This invariably comes at the cost of a few more runs but if they help dismiss batsmen who could go on to get big runs, these bowlers are worth their weight in gold. The criteria is much more important in the longer version of the game but is not to be underestimated in odis since the best way to check run rates is to take wickets and, where possible, bundle out sides in less than their full quota of overs.
Bowler St Rt Bond 29.2 Lee 29.5 Shoaib 30.1 Waqar 30.2 Donald 31.5 Ntini 32.8 Steyn 33.6 McGrath 34.0 Wasim 36.2 Bishop 39.8 Pollock 39.9 Ambrose 45.4 Walsh 48.6
The criteria most used by fans for the shorter formats for deciding their best sides. But it can be exaggerated as a virtue. Wicket taking ability has to be combined with reasonable economy rates for the strike bowlers. The very tight bowlers are more to be used in tandem with the strike bowlers. A team of the tightest bowlers in history who were not great strike bowlers might end up second best more often than not.
Bowler Eco Rt Ambrose 3.43 Pollock 3.66 Walsh 3.86 McGrath 3.88 Wasim 3.91 Donald 4.15 Bond 4.29 Bishop 4.46 Ntini 4.48 Shoaib 4.68 Waqar 4.71 Lee 4.75 Steyn 5.04
Bowler Avg Finally the criteria most used for bowling particularly in the shorter format. It is really a combination of the economy rate and the strike rate and is thus a happy medium to use for all bowling particularly if seen alongwith wickets per match Bond 20.9 Donald 21.8 McGrath 22.0 Lee 23.4 Shoaib 23.5 Wasim 23.6 Waqar 23.7 Pollock 24.3 Ntini 24.5 Ambrose 26.0 Steyn 28.2 Bishop 29.6 Walsh 31.2
I am sure these figures will come as some surprise to those who have already made up their minds. For me, it confirms my opinion that Bond and Donald are two of the finest odi bowlers of this era and Pollock is probably the most under-rated.
PS : I suspect some people may be leaving out Bond for not having played enough but just look at Steyn. He has played so few he fails to qualify for the 75 game criteria set in the thread opener.
Last edited by SJS; 29-12-2012 at 07:33 PM.
|29-12-2012, 10:20 AM||#15 (permalink)|
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Top floor, bottom buzzer
Bowling stats in ODIs are so hard to make proper conclusions about. Even compared to Test stats, which are flawed at the best of times, number-cruching for the pyjama cricket leaves a lot to be desired.
The value of a wicket and a maiden changes in Test cricket depending on the match situation, but those are relatively rare circumstances, and a bowler's primary job is always to take wickets. Not so in one-dayers, where the changes happen at the same time in every match.
I wish we could see strike rates and economy rates for each period of the innings.
These bowlers will have two jobs - take wickets at the top of the innings and save runs at the death. Batsmen will be naturally more keen to play themselves in and set up a platform against the new ball, and in the last half a dozen overs wickets are bound to fall in pursuit of quick runs.
If a bowler - particularly these bowlers - takes 0/14 off his first 5 overs, we can't look at that economy of 2.8 and applaud him because the oppo were probably just seeing him off. And now the change bowlers have to try and manufacture a wicket with the field spread. If he takes 4/40 off his final 5 overs, who cares about the 4-for? He's conceded eight runs an over while a few lower-order players hole out off him.
If the spells were the other way around, it's an amazing performance. Both cases go down as 4-54, an average scorebook entry, but it could be brilliant and it could be awful.
This is all before we get into the likes of trying to work out which ODIs actually matter. In Tests you say quite confidently that almost every match had the best team the selectors thought available playing and the fans cared about it. Maybe if you're a harsher man than me you'll skim over performances against minnow teams or early tours that didn't at the time count as Tests, but in both cases you're making a minor adjustment.
Not so in one-dayers. The schedules are full of matches were first team players are rested. There are post-Test matches at the end of a long tour where the drive and contest just isn't present. There are matches where potential Test targets are picked to see how they go in internationals despite the difference in format, and worst of all there are matches that include Jade Dernbach.
You could focus on World Cup games, as the only games where everyone involved genuinely gives a ****, but then half your games are against Canada or Namibia. We're losing matches at a rate of knots here and we're only left with a fraction of the data we started with.
So it's my view that, while ODI stats are a okay guideline for identifying the top echelon of players - such as everyone mentioned in the OP plus Donald - past that the specifics just aren't there. I don't think there's any real difference in a few points of strike rate or a few tenths of a run per over, not least because those two things are often cancelled out anyway.
I guess the only way to really form the best opinion on the finest ODI players is just to watch as much ODI cricket as there is, all over the world, all the time.
|Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)|
|Thread||Thread Starter||Forum||Replies||Last Post|
|Test Cricket Draft||LFD||Cricket Chat||89||17-12-2012 05:30 PM|
|good article on lara v. tendulkar||Bapu Rao Swami||Cricket Chat||43||03-12-2012 09:29 PM|
|Great Test Matches..||Neil Pickup||General||67||04-10-2010 07:17 PM|