Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 95

Thread: The value of Anil Kumble was underestimated

  1. #61
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Locked up inside my opium den, surrounded by some Chinamen
    Posts
    45,141
    MacGill and Kumble is apples and oranges tho.

    MacGill was an attacking legspinner and Kumble a defensive and very accurate bowler of leg-cutters. Check out the differences in ER & SR.
    Cricket Web's 2013/14 Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "as much a news event as an actual footballer, a worthy stop-start centre forward, but an all-time hyper-galactico when it comes to doing funny things with cars and hats, a player whose signing proves once again that the Premier League is still undoubtedly the best in the world when it comes to doing things with cars and hats."
    - Barney Ronay on Mario Balotelli

  2. #62
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Colombo, SL
    Posts
    5,760
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Reckon if MacGill were Indian they'd have had a better side with him.
    Given the tonking he had from indians, would be very brave selector to put him in that Indian team.
    Diuretics are used to look good at TV shows

    I played for 20 years in the Lankan team, I did not have any problems as a Tamil - Muralidaran

  3. #63
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,814
    Quote Originally Posted by Migara View Post
    Given the tonking he had from indians, would be very brave selector to put him in that Indian team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Migara View Post
    Given the tonking he had from indians, would be very brave selector to put him in that Indian team.
    MacGill's SR against India was better than Warne's: 83 / 91

    And his Average was only slightly worse: 50 /47

    However, these numbers against India don't mean too much as MacGill played a mere 4 Tests against India. Also, while Indians obviously play spin very well they have little idea against fast bowling unless they're playing on a pitch somewhere in their home country that has been doctored with a megadose of morphine so the ball never rises above the knee roll. And even then they tend to poo their pants rather than watch the ball on the bat. The point being that fast bowling is far more pertinent to contests with India.
    Last edited by watson; 30-12-2012 at 03:16 PM.
    Tendulkar - M.Waugh - Ponting - Richards - Dhoni - Bevan - Kapil Dev - Hadlee - Akram - Garner - Muralitharan

  4. #64
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,814
    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    I don't know about the comparison with MacGill, but it was really Harbhajan Singh who was the driving force behind the Indian spin-bowling attack.

    In other words, Kumble would have been a fraction of the bowler he was, and little more more than a mediocre medium paced leggie without the guile and genius of Harbhajan Singh to carry him along.
    I think that my original perception of the Kumble-Harbhajan combination is wrong as the stat's don't back it up;

    Tests WITH Harbhajan
    Wickets = 281
    Ave = 28.36
    Econ = 2.75
    SR = 61.8

    Tests WITHOUT Harbhajan
    Wickets = 338
    Ave = 30.72
    Econ = 2.65
    SR = 69.4

    In realty it appears that the effectiveness of Kumble's bowling only increased marginally with Harbhajan operating at the other end of the pitch. Which just goes to show that you shouldn't always trust your observation and intuition.


  5. #65
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    54,889
    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    MacGill's SR against India was better than Warne's: 83 / 91

    And his Average was only slightly worse: 50 /47

    However, these numbers against India don't mean too much as MacGill played a mere 4 Tests against India. Also, while Indians obviously play spin very well they have little idea against fast bowling unless they're playing on a pitch somewhere in their home country that has been doctored with a megadose of morphine so the ball never rises above the knee roll. And even then they tend to poo their pants rather than watch the ball on the bat. The point being that fast bowling is far more pertinent to contests with India.
    True, but not in 2003/04. Australia had a weaker bowling lineup than usual and they rolled out the flat decks in Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney. India owned Lee, Williams, Bichel, Bracken and even Gillespie (though he wasnt 100% but bad luck, you step out onto the park its on you). MacGill didn't step up, he got tonked along with the others.

    That doesn't mean he is a poor bowler by any stretch, as the wickets were flat. But it's part of his career and you can't just ignore it because he played India.

    In any case Kumble thoroughly out bowled MacGill in Sydney by so far it's not funny. Kumble almost won India a test on a pitch that had no right producing a result.
    Last edited by Jono; 30-12-2012 at 06:27 PM.

  6. #66
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Is this CricketWeb's greatest poster in the short history of the forum?
    Posts
    37,156
    MacGill thoroughly, thoroughly out bowled Kumble in Australian conditions, so not sure what that arguments about.

    Kumble averages near 40 in Australia does he not?
    Parmi | #1 draft pick | Jake King is **** | Big Bash League tipping champion of the universe
    Come and Paint Turtle
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Kohli. Do something in test cricket for once please.

    Thanks.

  7. #67
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    54,889
    I don't debate cricket with you #neverwrong #nevergivesground

    Ftr, I don't think its unreasonable to think MacGill could have/would have been better than Kumble. But you don't just discard his series in 2003/04 because its against India, that's crazy talk.

    Its a shame MacGill never got to play in India. His record in SL isn't great, but he only played 2 tests there and he did okay in one test.

  8. #68
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Is this CricketWeb's greatest poster in the short history of the forum?
    Posts
    37,156
    Watson didn't discard the series against India, he said that the fact that he only played four matches isn't a big enough sample size to know for sure, and that it's not unusual for spin bowlers to be less effective against India.

  9. #69
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    54,889
    The line "The point being that fast bowling is far more pertinent to contests with India." is not a proper defence when the series MacGill played in, Australia's fast bowlers didn't dominate. They could have used MacGill getting some wickets.

    I agree its not a good sample size to judge his career, but he's a bloke who didnt have a proper career and that's the debate here isn't it? I mean he didn't get every opportunity to forge his career, so its all speculation. But on top of that, he also got to be selected many times when the pitch was turning as a second spinner, so there are advantages and disadvantages to it.
    Last edited by Jono; 30-12-2012 at 07:07 PM.

  10. #70
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Is this CricketWeb's greatest poster in the short history of the forum?
    Posts
    37,156
    And worth noting those times he did play as a second spinner he totally out bowled Shane Warne.

    Lets not forget that Kumble was selected as apart of a two spinners attack also. Which was probably due to India having **** seam options, but largely due to playing in spin friendly conditions.

  11. #71
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    54,889
    No doubt Kumble had great bowling conditions for much of his career when he played in India. Valid point for sure.

  12. #72
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,173
    Kumble had brilliant bowling conditions at home, but it's safe to say that during his time he was the best at making use of such conditions. No other spinner during his time could match his dominance and effectiveness on Indian pitches (although all other spinners were bowling to the Indian batting lineup). Credit must be given to Kumble for that.

  13. #73
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    seamy road
    Posts
    11,741
    k00mble as I remember it benefited mightily from the extra bounce on offer here. I'm not saying he ran through sides, but they found him difficult to play due to that. It suited his style.
    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    I just love all kinds of balls.

  14. #74
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,173
    As a bowler who relied a lot on bounce, Kumble was effective in places not traditionally suited to spin, such as Australia and South Africa. And in his later years he developed ways to be effective on slow pitches, with variations in pace and flight and using his googly and topspinner well.

    Kumble was a good bowler in all conditions, and a match winner when presented with spin and bounce. I think most sides in the world, if not all, would love a bowler like Kumble in their lineup. He wasn't amazing on a frequent basis, but he was always steady, and always delivered in conditions where he was expected to. Very reliable bowler. Comfortable third behind Warne and Murali when it comes to modern-day ATG spinners.

  15. #75
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,814
    Quote Originally Posted by uvelocity View Post
    k00mble as I remember it benefited mightily from the extra bounce on offer here. I'm not saying he ran through sides, but they found him difficult to play due to that. It suited his style.
    In Africa = 31.33

    In Americas = 31.28

    In Asia = 27.00

    In Europe = 41.41

    in Oceania = 38.20

    The above averages show that Kumble did not benefit 'mightily' from the extra bounce in Australia (Oceania).

    It seems that he was more potent when the ball kept low so he could more readily attack the stumps and go for lbws. Hence, in Asia his figures indicate a very good bowler, but outside of Asia Kumble he was little more than a middle-of-the-road bowler.

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Scoring 500+ in first innings, only to lose by an innings
    By blahblahblah in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 28-08-2012, 09:45 AM
  2. Mystery Draft V.2 (1989-2009)
    By Mupariwa_Magic in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 492
    Last Post: 21-11-2009, 01:00 PM
  3. Anil Kumble - India's New Test Captain
    By Sanz in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 92
    Last Post: 19-11-2007, 11:01 PM
  4. **Season 7 Press Releases!!!**
    By lord_of_darkness in forum World Club Cricket
    Replies: 137
    Last Post: 08-02-2006, 11:16 PM
  5. Anil Kumble and Amit Mishra
    By Salamuddin in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 18-10-2003, 04:08 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •