Do domestic structures define the test rankings? - Page 3

GingerFurball · 21-12-2012, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgieb

Players like Sachin, Kallis, Steyn, etc. Anderson I guess goes close, but he's only really been "that" good over the past couple of years. KP doesn't count as he learned his cricket in South Africa.

Anderson's career average is a reflection of him being mucked around by England for 4 years.

Come the end of his career you'll easily be able to cherry pick 250 wickets at an average of 25ish.

GIMH · 22-12-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgieb

Players like Sachin, Kallis, Steyn, etc. Anderson I guess goes close, but he's only really been "that" good over the past couple of years. KP doesn't count as he learned his cricket in South Africa.

That's a high bar you're setting. Surely Alastair Cook coming through the junior system counts for something?

morgieb · 22-12-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIMH

That's a high bar you're setting. Surely Alastair Cook coming through the junior system counts for something?

Ignored Cook as a post said that England do not produce "exciting" talents, which was kinda similar to my point (although I did include Kallis...lol).

Still, Cook and Anderson have been only two of England-produced gun talents in recent years. There's probably more, but it does kinda pale in comparison to other countries.

GingerFurball · 22-12-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgieb

Ignored Cook as a post said that England do not produce "exciting" talents, which was kinda similar to my point (although I did include Kallis...lol).

That's a pretty ****ing nonsense criteria then.

Neil Pickup · 22-12-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgieb

Ignored Cook as a post said that England do not produce "exciting" talents, which was kinda similar to my point (although I did include Kallis...lol).

Still, Cook and Anderson have been only two of England-produced gun talents in recent years. There's probably more, but it does kinda pale in comparison to other countries.

I wish we were producing more players like Umar Akmal too.

Seriously, what point are you trying to argue?

morgieb · 22-12-2012, 06:22 PM

My original point was that County Cricket was more good for refining talents rather than producing them - plenty of players have become better cricketers for experience there (Hussey, Swann and Pietersen three obvious examples). My point descended into bull**** though as I forgot about the fact that England has produced plenty of quality players, particularly recently.

GIMH · 22-12-2012, 06:24 PM

Swann was produced by the English system as well though?

morgieb · 22-12-2012, 06:26 PM

He didn't make his test debut until he was 29 though.....that was part of my original point.

GingerFurball · 22-12-2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgieb

He didn't make his test debut until he was 29 though.....that was part of my original point.

The County system still produced him though.

GingerFurball · 22-12-2012, 06:32 PM

I'm guessing morgie's talking about a lack of "exciting" young talent, forgetting that the likes of KP, Anderson, Bell and Cook were all at one point exciting talents in their early 20s. If we don't appear to have produced many exciting batsmen in particular over the last 5-6 years then it's because the generation that debuted between 2004 and 2006 have been so bloody good.

Neil Pickup · 22-12-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

I'm guessing morgie's talking about a lack of "exciting" young talent, forgetting that the likes of KP, Anderson, Bell and Cook were all at one point exciting talents in their early 20s. If we don't appear to have produced many exciting batsmen in particular over the last 5-6 years then it's because the generation that debuted between 2004 and 2006 have been so bloody good.

Root, Buttler, Hales, Wright, Bairstow, Stokes, Roy, Vince, Taylor, Bell-Drummond, Foakes...

And then Meaker, Brooks, Harris, Woakes, Buck, Finn, Mills, Borthwick, Briggs, Ball, Topley...

I'm not worrying.

Flem274* · 22-12-2012, 07:54 PM

God these statements about production of young talent have ground my gears lately. ****s with no knowledge of other countries ****s just assume other countries have less talent than their own because they haven't heard of them. It was especially bad the other day with the South Africa-England nationalistic dick waving.

No ****, it just means you don't read outside your own country.

Just because England have a relatively settled side it doesn't mean there is nothing in County Cricket.

Daemon · 22-12-2012, 09:44 PM

It's just the old idea of England having orthodox and boring cricketers throughout their ranks.

The same people who believe that feed their misconceptions with guys like Trott, while conveniently forgetting blokes like Flintoff ever existed.

GIMH · 23-12-2012, 03:13 PM

Freddie

benchmark00 · 24-12-2012, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Pickup

Root, Buttler, Hales, Wright, Bairstow, Stokes, Roy, Vince, Taylor, Bell-Drummond, Foakes...

And then Meaker, Brooks, Harris, Woakes, Buck, Finn, Mills, Borthwick, Briggs, Ball, Topley...

I'm not worrying.

Other than Bairstow and probably Root, you're not making a compelling point...

Wouldn't be crowing about that list of names at all just yet. Just because you can name a number of county players, doesn't mean they're good, or more importantly, will be any good at international level.

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22-12-2012, 06:22 PM	#36 (permalink)
morgieb Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Paradise City Posts: 8,920	My original point was that County Cricket was more good for refining talents rather than producing them - plenty of players have become better cricketers for experience there (Hussey, Swann and Pietersen three obvious examples). My point descended into bull**** though as I forgot about the fact that England has produced plenty of quality players, particularly recently.

22-12-2012, 06:24 PM	#37 (permalink)
GIMH Eternal Optimist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Shake my tree where's the apple for me? Posts: 43,581	Swann was produced by the English system as well though?

22-12-2012, 06:26 PM	#38 (permalink)
morgieb Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Paradise City Posts: 8,920	He didn't make his test debut until he was 29 though.....that was part of my original point.

22-12-2012, 06:32 PM	#40 (permalink)
GingerFurball Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Crabs Subbie Posts: 15,402	I'm guessing morgie's talking about a lack of "exciting" young talent, forgetting that the likes of KP, Anderson, Bell and Cook were all at one point exciting talents in their early 20s. If we don't appear to have produced many exciting batsmen in particular over the last 5-6 years then it's because the generation that debuted between 2004 and 2006 have been so bloody good.

22-12-2012, 09:44 PM	#43 (permalink)
Daemon Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: . Posts: 8,736	It's just the old idea of England having orthodox and boring cricketers throughout their ranks. The same people who believe that feed their misconceptions with guys like Trott, while conveniently forgetting blokes like Flintoff ever existed.

23-12-2012, 03:13 PM	#44 (permalink)
GIMH Eternal Optimist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Shake my tree where's the apple for me? Posts: 43,581	Freddie

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