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Thread: People 'tarnishing their legacy' by going on too long...

  1. #16
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teja. View Post
    There are two acceptable sets of cricket fans; those who don't give a **** about stats, there are those who like stats and analyze them in context.

    The entire 'legacy is tarnished because average went from 55 to 53.87' argument is an extremely frivolous one which is used purely by the ****wits in between who rely on stats but use them prima facie, without context.
    Yeah indeed

    The lone career average is mostly bollocks, it kicks out any form of narrative and in doing so missed the point of not only cricket but sport in general. Gives stats a bad name

  2. #17
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    I think there are two kinds of declines. Or maybe two stages of one decline. Anyway, there's the stage where a player isn't quite as infallible as his superhuman former self and there's another when he becomes a liability.

    I'd never mark down a player for continuing when he's at the first stage, often he'll still be the best option available to his country (it'd be interesting to compare Botham's post-86/87 career to that of any of the Beefy manques that came in his stead if anyone could be arsed) but equally one hopes players have the self-honesty to know when they reach the second stage of decline amd exit the spotlight before they become travesties of themselves.

    However, I don't think that even when former greats reach that regrettable stage that their legacy necessarily loses any lustre for those who saw them in their cups. It's only maybe future generations whose first introduction to players is often the brute stats of their career figures who'll need to be convinced.
    - As featured in The Independent.

    "Predictably, the ending of his international career did not end the argument about Pietersen's merits, as an army of informed commentators and Piers Morgan weighed in to defend or attack him."
    - The Guardian's Andrew Anthony

  3. #18
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    . But, there's something inescapably sad about seeing someone who's obviously a long way past their prime continue to struggle on in futile fashion. Like Old Yella. They really loved that dog, but there came a time when he had to be put out of his misery, for the benefit of everyone.
    Bingo

  4. #19
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    I remember this article on Cricinfo when Brian Lara was playing ICL, and sucking balls. It was about how he should be careful not to hurt his legacy and have people remember him for that


  5. #20
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    I remember this article on Cricinfo when Brian Lara was playing ICL, and sucking balls. It was about how he should be careful not to hurt his legacy and have people remember him for that
    No, but it would have been sad if Lara had played Test cricket for 12 months longer than he did and averaged in the 20s.

  6. #21
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Not sure why people are making such a 'beat-up' over this. I already pointed out that by 'tarnish' his legacy, I meant 'blemish' and not 'ruin'. If you don't agree it would be sad to see Tendulkar continuing playing on and failing, that's fine, but quit making out people have been suggesting his whole career will be ruined, because that just isn't the case. Talk about blowing things out of proportion.

  7. #22
    International Captain Bahnz's Avatar
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    Crowe certainly had an end of career slump. In the last year of his career he was extremely average. He only managed to average about 19 after the 1994 tour of England. That was probably mainly due to the fact that at that stage he couldn't really put any pressure on his right leg anymore, and that's probably why his legacy wasn't remotely tarnished by it.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 18-12-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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  8. #23
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    I remember this article on Cricinfo when Brian Lara was playing ICL, and sucking balls. It was about how he should be careful not to hurt his legacy and have people remember him for that
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    No, but it would have been sad if Lara had played Test cricket for 12 months longer than he did and averaged in the 20s.
    Haha actually wasn't referring to you or your views this time. Just saying this thread reminded me of that article.

    Bloke just went to the ICL to make money.

  9. #24
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    Bingo
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    Not sure why people are making such a 'beat-up' over this. I already pointed out that by 'tarnish' his legacy, I meant 'blemish' and not 'ruin'. If you don't agree it would be sad to see Tendulkar continuing playing on and failing, that's fine, but quit making out people have been suggesting his whole career will be ruined, because that just isn't the case. Talk about blowing things out of proportion.
    I think this is where your argument is a little inconsistent though.

    At times you have talked about Tendulkar's average dipping.

    Then you've also talked about it just being sad to see him struggle as if he can't hold a bat.

    They are two different things. One is you saying his average falling below 55 will hurt his legacy. The other is just a general sadness of seeing a former great no longer be any good.

    Everyone agrees with your latter point. But not everyone agrees with your first point.

  10. #25
    International Vice-Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    if he plays the upcoming border-gavaskar series and inevitably fails in it too, then yeah it'll be a tiny blemish.

    maybe he's thinking that if he has one good series for the final time, he'll go out on a bit of a high and all will be rosy, cosy.
    another possibility could be that BCCI don't want him to go yet as it will no doubt affect their income significantly.

    they apparently blocked dhoni's axing earlier this year for perhaps the same reason.

    $$$$$ talks.
    Proud Supporter of All Blacks

  11. #26
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    look he's pretty much not a patch on his former self, but I won't forget as a kid watching this kid from india play test cricket and smack our bowlers around all day. that incredulity will stay with me forever, nothing he does now has any effect on that memory.
    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts.. . For support rather than illumination. " - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

  12. #27
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Kohli. Do something in test cricket for once please.

    Thanks.

  13. #28
    State Vice-Captain Tangles's Avatar
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    I wouldnt be surprised if he is going for 200 tests if he is that close.

  14. #29
    State 12th Man
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    again, there are two cases here :

    1. performing quite a bit below the player's own high standards, but still contributing well enough to the team , that shouldn't hurt the legacy that much ....

    2. performing well below average by a decent batsman's standards for an extended amount of time ..... that would hurt the legacy quite a bit ...

    as far as ponting goes, he'd been out of form in tests for quite some time ( minus the India series ) ..

    for sachin, the time has been lesser comparatively ( since 2011 WC ), especially when compared to someone like gambhir in the same team who hasn't done that well since 2010 ....

    but its about time that he performed well in the next series or two .... absolute shame that he didn't capitalize in Aus, where he looked in excellent touch ....

  15. #30
    International Debutant M0rphin3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudrunner View Post
    give 21yo smith a break. bradmans figures for his first few tests were comparable.....

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