If you were Sachin Tendulkar . . .

[Jono]

Considering how Viv is treated by the main cricket public compared to Clyde Walcott, Javed Miandad and some others, I reckon you overstate how people remember averages, as opposed to what they saw.

 

[Jono]

Also you ignored the other point, just how quickly Sachin fell away. No one would have thought he was past it heading into Australia or even the NZ series in India.

It has been a quick fall.

 

[silentstriker]

FTR I didn't rate Ponting any lower when he was averaging 58 vs. now. This happens to virtually EVERY batsmen. How many people retire at their absolute peak? Precious few.


On a second note, I do count their performance when they were **** just as much as I do when they were great. If you put on the cap for your country and go out - you will score runs and take wickets or you won't. Those runs and wickets count - they win or lose you test matches, and as long as they do, they should count in judging you as a player.

This is why Ian Botham isn't considered the greatest player of all time - because if you're only taking a player at his best - you could make an argument that he'd be #1 player on a team, even above Bradman.

 

[Zinzan]

Age catches up to people quickly. Sachin went from our best to being past it in the space of 12 months. You are acting like he's hung on for years and years. He would have only realised he's starting to suck balls against NZ and now England. That's a space of only 6 months.

Agree it's predominately been the last 6 months, as he still did relativity well in Aust compared to his team mates. Not sure what gives you the impression I think it';s been years. The reason I sound so strong about it is due to how awful he's 'looked' at the crease against NZ.

 

[Jono]

You keep talking about tarnishing his legacy. You're acting as if Sachin has tarnished his legacy by playing well after his peak despite knowing he was done. Everyone has only just realised he's done, probably himself too. There was no way for him to prevent this really, unless he quit after the NZ series based on 2 poor tests, but he probably believed he could come back to somewhere near his 2010/11 form during the England series.

Evidently not

 

[Zinzan]

Considering how Viv is treated by the main cricket public compared to Clyde Walcott, Javed Miandad and some others, I reckon you overstate how people remember averages, as opposed to what they saw.

C'mon Jono, you're a knowledgeable cricket fan, you know damn well why "Viv" is held in the esteem, his legacy is entirely about the way he dominated and intimidated attacks. Only Ponting (at his very best) Gilchrist and Lara come close in this respect. I'm not saying 'everything' is governed by average, just saying it is generally used as a measure stick.

 

[Arachnodouche]

It would be awesome if he went Charles Foster Kane on us, retired as a recluse to some heavily secured fortress of solitude, and then resurfaced 20 years down the road to give a one off interview on life and its vagaries

 

[Zinzan]

You keep talking about tarnishing his legacy. You're acting as if Sachin has tarnished his legacy by playing well after his peak despite knowing he was done. Everyone has only just realised he's done, probably himself too. There was no way for him to prevent this really, unless he quit after the NZ series based on 2 poor tests, but he probably believed he could come back to somewhere near his 2010/11 form during the England series.

Evidently not

Lol, again we're agreeing he's past it aren't we?

 

[Jono]

My point is you're basically saying 6 test matches ruined his legacy. I find that odd.

 

[Jono]

C'mon Jono, you're a knowledgeable cricket fan, you know damn well why "Viv" is held in the esteem, his legacy is entirely about the way he dominated and intimidated attacks. Only Ponting (at his very best) Gilchrist and Lara come close in this respect. I'm not saying 'everything' is governed by average, just saying it is generally used as a measure stick.

Yeah those are the Viv intangibles, how cool he was, how much he dominated, his aura etc. Tendulkar has certain intangibles to that will ensure he has his legacy, mostly which includes the fact that he was treated as if he was a God by his country. That will stick. So will the fact he held so many records and played for so long.

Anyway we're arguing about what people will think of Sachin in 20 years. You seem to think people will see him in the same light as a Miandad or Gavaskar. I am 100% certain the guy who holds the record for most runs in ODIs and tests and most ever test matches will have a pretty decent legacy, and it won't be stained by 2 tests vs. NZ and 4 tests vs. England.

 

[Zinzan]

My point is you're basically saying 6 test matches ruined his legacy. I find that odd.

At no stage did I say "Ruin". Tarnish ≠ Ruin. I find it odd you don't see the difference between the terms.

 

[Ikki]

Also I think its quite clear that Ponting and Tendulkar did not have a priority to go out on on top of their game. Their priority was doing what they love as long as they can.

I guess it is only those who understand that reasoning, or who take it into account, that won't punish them too hard for their troughs at the end.

Anyway, who knows if he is really past it? He was supposed to have been past it before his most recent resurgence. Cricket is a funny game; momentum and form can swing violently.

 

[nick-o]

Personally, i think there's no way he willingly retires before he's reached the 200-match milestone. I get the impression that sort of milestone means a huge amount to him. I guess he would then take stock of how he's performing when he gets to that day.

I think the only way he retires before then is if he was told he was definitely going to be dropped, but I don't think anyone has the guts to say that to him.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Personally, i think there's no way he willingly retires before he's reached the 200-match milestone. I get the impression that sort of milestone means a huge amount to him. I guess he would then take stock of how he's performing when he gets to that day.

I think the only way he retires before then is if he was told he was definitely going to be dropped, but I don't think anyone has the guts to say that to him.

Fully agree with this, been saying for a while that 200 tests will be his aim now.

 

[kingkallis]

If he does it ( 200 tests ) then I so wish Cook breaks all his records.

I cant believe I am saying it but thats the frustration of an Indian cricket fan.

 

[Spikey]

i heard the reason sachin won't retire is because he doesn't wanna do the press conference

 

[flibbertyjibber]

i heard the reason sachin won't retire is because he doesn't wanna do the press conference

 

[centurymaker]

If he does it ( 200 tests ) then I so wish Cook breaks all his records.

+1

not only cook, kallis too.

if he plays 6 more tests as a total passenger. he won't deserve to hold world records imho.


Laxman and Dravid retired after 4 poor tests in AUS. (8 innings)

He has had 6 tests (9 innings).

 

[centurymaker]

i heard the reason sachin won't retire is because he doesn't wanna do the press conference

LOL definitely a possibility.

 

[Prince EWS]

i heard the reason sachin won't retire is because he doesn't wanna do the press conference

Ashwin will be there to announce Tendulkar's retirement IMO.