-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
India Post Mortem Thread
- Thread starter Cevno
- Start date
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
If you guys want to see some real change, then arrange a Test series at home against Pak. After getting whitewashed your board will sack he whole team automatically. 
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
maybe they should've had this series right after the WC instead of the england tour.If you guys want to see some real change, then arrange a Test series at home against Pak. After getting whitewashed your board will sack he whole team automatically.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
It doesn't matter if it was 2 weeks. It's the World Cup and it's the same across different sports. Look at Football where a team can lose 1 match and be knocked out, after qualifying top of the group and still see a whole country want the heads.
Really depends on what exactly was the question, but don't think he's trying to hide the faults by saying that or living in denial. For the players that period after the world cup must have been hell, due to the anger of the fans after the build up and if so he was asked to compare the 2 in terms of that, then obv he'll say the WC was worse. And that is what likely the question was this series vs the WC exit.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Nah **** that, I don't care what the question was. By saying "its not even close to 2007" all it is doing is telling the world that they aren't too bothered and not giving off the impression that they are doing all they can to fix this, and showing the urgency of the situation. Its the wrong statement.
He should have said "yeah man this ****ing sucks, we're hurting here but we're trying and we intend to rebuild. There have been some tough moments in my career, such as the 2007 WC loss, and we were hurting then but we were able to recover after that. We will try and recover after this low moment too, and I want to stay on as captain and lead the team back."
That would have been a way to answer that. Not "yeah but this ain't as bad as the 2007 WC so its not that bad. I wasn't captain then by the way, Rahul was. Rahul sucks, he was worse then me, yeahhhhhhhhhh suck it Rahul"
He should have said "yeah man this ****ing sucks, we're hurting here but we're trying and we intend to rebuild. There have been some tough moments in my career, such as the 2007 WC loss, and we were hurting then but we were able to recover after that. We will try and recover after this low moment too, and I want to stay on as captain and lead the team back."
That would have been a way to answer that. Not "yeah but this ain't as bad as the 2007 WC so its not that bad. I wasn't captain then by the way, Rahul was. Rahul sucks, he was worse then me, yeahhhhhhhhhh suck it Rahul"
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Yes I know he shouldn't have said it but I'm just saying it's the truth.
Cruxdude
International Debutant
Regardless of his struggle would be very sad if he is not given a farewell series. But if he is retiring after the Aussie series we will be throwing in a youngster on an overseas tour. Hope he gets a farewell match at least.
Do not see the selectors dropping Sehwag and Gambhir despite their overall ****ty attitude. They showed some fight at different times and think that will save their ass unless the selectors show some massive balls. Would ideally have both out of the team. One for his lackadaisical attitude and other for being a selfish git.
I seriously believe relieving Dhoni of captaincy can have a big positive effect on him. Seems to suffer from siege mentality and taking the pressure off can possibly bring out the best in him.
Rohit and Rahane need to get a look in soon. I can see Sachin retiring mid-Aussie series or even after the first test and Rohit should come in. Rahane should replace Sehwag or Gambhir but as I said not having much hopes about them being dropped.
Will give Ashwin more time. Not like we have spinners smashing the door down. Ojha was pretty good through the series and deserves his spot. Ishant wasn't as bad as I expected him to be and will mostly hold on to his spot. Yadav needs to play and we need to keep him fit. With all the money BCCI has they can afford to have someone work exclusively on him and keep him as fit as possible.
We are in for a dark period and do not see this lifting any time soon unless Kohli and Pujara really shine and at least one of our bowlers delivers consistent a la Kumble.
Do not see the selectors dropping Sehwag and Gambhir despite their overall ****ty attitude. They showed some fight at different times and think that will save their ass unless the selectors show some massive balls. Would ideally have both out of the team. One for his lackadaisical attitude and other for being a selfish git.
I seriously believe relieving Dhoni of captaincy can have a big positive effect on him. Seems to suffer from siege mentality and taking the pressure off can possibly bring out the best in him.
Rohit and Rahane need to get a look in soon. I can see Sachin retiring mid-Aussie series or even after the first test and Rohit should come in. Rahane should replace Sehwag or Gambhir but as I said not having much hopes about them being dropped.
Will give Ashwin more time. Not like we have spinners smashing the door down. Ojha was pretty good through the series and deserves his spot. Ishant wasn't as bad as I expected him to be and will mostly hold on to his spot. Yadav needs to play and we need to keep him fit. With all the money BCCI has they can afford to have someone work exclusively on him and keep him as fit as possible.
We are in for a dark period and do not see this lifting any time soon unless Kohli and Pujara really shine and at least one of our bowlers delivers consistent a la Kumble.
Cruxdude
International Debutant
Regarding the WC 2007 vs this series loss. They are both very disappointing but in different ways. WC 2007 came around when our ODI team, was doing pretty well. We had a record number of successive wins while chasing and the young guns were gunning it. There was a quiet confidence of the team doing well. That confidence made the loss really painful.
This loss just got a sick feeling to the stomach and confirmed that we are going to be ****ty at least for a few more years.
This loss is easier to digest given that we were the second best team quite clearly. The WC loss was devastating and the reaction of the public just confirmed it.
This loss just got a sick feeling to the stomach and confirmed that we are going to be ****ty at least for a few more years.
This loss is easier to digest given that we were the second best team quite clearly. The WC loss was devastating and the reaction of the public just confirmed it.
Cruxdude
International Debutant
Didn't get a chance to see him bat but he looked competent with the ball, at least in the first innings.
Contra
Cricketer Of The Year
Some of you guys need to get some perspective, or do some research. Dhoni's comments are based on this
M S Dhoni's house attacked after Indian loss - Thatscricket
http://www.vcricket.com/cricket-news/dhoni-tells-fans-to-control-emotions-23070.html
He's talking on a more personal level, and in terms of fan reaction, it is 100% true and correct. Indian fans care more about WC than tests. Simple as that. There is nothing wrong with what Dhoni said.
M S Dhoni's house attacked after Indian loss - Thatscricket
http://www.vcricket.com/cricket-news/dhoni-tells-fans-to-control-emotions-23070.html
He's talking on a more personal level, and in terms of fan reaction, it is 100% true and correct. Indian fans care more about WC than tests. Simple as that. There is nothing wrong with what Dhoni said.
Last edited:
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
+1 to what Contra is saying.
Also, as poor as Dhoni's performances have been, the coach really has to take the rap on the lack of change in team selections and attitudes.
He should have insisted on some changes when things were going wrong and he's far too late now.
18 months is plenty of time to have an impact and he's done nothing whatsoever.
Also, as poor as Dhoni's performances have been, the coach really has to take the rap on the lack of change in team selections and attitudes.
He should have insisted on some changes when things were going wrong and he's far too late now.
18 months is plenty of time to have an impact and he's done nothing whatsoever.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
It's true the coach should take the rap too but in India ?
How much is the coach allowed to do. There was a chap called Greg Chappell once who was selected as coach on the basis of a detailed document he carried with him at the time of his final interview for appointment. This was a report on what was wrong with Indian cricket from his perspective and which directions changes appeared to be required. BCCI honchos sat mesmerized as he dissected Indian cricket as if he had been an integral part of it for decades. His selection was guaranteed and he was told he would have a completely free hand.
He took them at face value and remember he was an Australian and a Chappell to boot. He started off. Treating everyone the way he would have treated international cricketers and captain in Australia, with professional deference, no less and no more. This was not something Indian cricketers and captain were used to and since Chappell had the unstinted backing of big boss Pawar, a backbiting and slimy political process started. A coterie of Indian cricketers, later joined by former cricketers some of the very vocal critics of any foreign coach and then by the electronic media which in India quickly tranates to one billion India's, made him look like a man with two horns and a pointed tail.
His fate was sealed although he became even more beligerent in the period that remained ( a Chappell and an Aussie) . So good were his ideas on what is needed for Indian cricket that Pawar insisted he take on as Chief Coach of the National Cricket Academy. He agreed but the public opinion against him was vitriolic and the first opportunity he got to leave for another assignment, he did.
So. How much Fletcher is allowed to do we don't know so I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt. Even our widely celebrated and loved coaches , Wright is case in point, right after they leave, inform us of the problems faced and the contortions required to survive and get ones points of view acted upon. Read Wrights eminently readable book on the subject.
Last edited:
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
Why are comparing Fletcher to Chappell and not too Kirsten ?
Kirsten delivered and improved a lot of things which was acknowledged by players and shown by results, even though you can't directly link the 2.
And Chappell's example is strange anyways. as he was allowed lot more room when he came than probably any other coach. He got his own staff, his own captain and his own youngish team. The problem was that he wanted more, and was a bad man manager + a bad strategist. (Batting Tendulkar at 4, making Dravid open + keep in ODI's and some of the team combinations were stupid).
SO when results didn't come but controversies did, his room further reduced until Ganguly came back and he was finally sacked after the 2007 WC debacle. Kirsten on the other hand was probably given less room initially, but knew his limits and worked extremely well in it by finding imaginative ways and a able staff. Is doing well in SA too by befriending players and not creating stupid enemies and becoming a megalomaniac.
Kirsten delivered and improved a lot of things which was acknowledged by players and shown by results, even though you can't directly link the 2.
And Chappell's example is strange anyways. as he was allowed lot more room when he came than probably any other coach. He got his own staff, his own captain and his own youngish team. The problem was that he wanted more, and was a bad man manager + a bad strategist. (Batting Tendulkar at 4, making Dravid open + keep in ODI's and some of the team combinations were stupid).
SO when results didn't come but controversies did, his room further reduced until Ganguly came back and he was finally sacked after the 2007 WC debacle. Kirsten on the other hand was probably given less room initially, but knew his limits and worked extremely well in it by finding imaginative ways and a able staff. Is doing well in SA too by befriending players and not creating stupid enemies and becoming a megalomaniac.
Last edited:
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
Had to respond to this part. Since when was Sharad Pawar a good judge of ideas ?
And anyways, he wasn't running the BCCI at that time. The second rung leaders like Lalit Modi, Manohar, Srinivasan,Shukla etc... were.
Chappell had the backing of the Mumbai lobby in Shastri, Gavaskar etc.. and that's why he was appointed and given so much room. And while his ideas may have seemed good on paper ( Not sure about that even tbh.), he was trying to aim for the sky without taking 2 steps and also was **** at implementing them.
He was **** as South Australia coach, **** as India coach and **** as Australian selector. Don't get why people glorify him as some sort of great ideologue, not allowed to his thing and also make all sorts of excuses for him.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
Australian players ban Greg Chappell from dressingroom | The Courier-Mail
Wasn't something which the Australian players took that kindly too either. Now if it was India this would have been blamed on lack of professionalism of Indian cricketers, being too big for their boots and also forming groups and what not including hating on a Australian.