South Africa ATG - Open Voting - Page 13

Jager · 14-12-2012, 07:02 PM

Taylor

kyear2 · 14-12-2012, 07:47 PM

Taylor

Days of Grace · 14-12-2012, 09:58 PM

Faulkner. Averaged over 40 in the golden age. Could hold a bat.

JBMAC · 14-12-2012, 10:32 PM

Mike Procter

Garson007 · 15-12-2012, 01:26 AM

Procter.

kyear2 · 15-12-2012, 04:53 AM

Faulkner's numbers could be somewhat misleading.

Againts Australia he averaged 62 with the bat and 50 (s/r 81) with the ball
Againts England he averaged 30 with the bat and 21 (s/r 45) with the ball

With the bat he only had two good years where he averaged over 23

1906 - 18
1907 - 23
1910 - 66
1911 - 69
1912 - 19
1924 - 18

From this it seems that he only batted well in good batting conditions and bowled well in helpful bowling conditions and in both instances struggled in the other dicipline. His batting also showed inconsistentcy and frankly cames across as a FTB with both bat and ball.

Again Kallis is the second best All Rounder to play the game and the team is good enough with hin supporting three great quicks (Steyn, Donald and Procter) with Tayfied as the spinning option.

zorax · 15-12-2012, 04:58 AM

Procter is good for me.

Jager · 15-12-2012, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyear2

Again Kallis is the second best All Rounder to play the game and the team is good enough with hin supporting three great quicks (Steyn, Donald and Procter) with Tayfied as the spinning option.

You say that like it's a fact - Kallis being the second best ever is highly debatable, as a batting-orientated allrounder he's definitely there for me though

kyear2 · 15-12-2012, 05:19 AM

An All Rounder to me is someone who can legitimately bat in the top order (at worst # 7) and also servive at the least as the team's fifth bolwer. Not too many players did that better than Kallis.

hendrix · 15-12-2012, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyear2

again kallis is the second best all rounder to play the game and the team is good enough with him supporting three great quicks (steyn, donald and procter) with tayfied as the spinning option.

+1

Prince EWS · 15-12-2012, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyear2

An All Rounder to me is someone who can legitimately bat in the top order (at worst # 7) and also servive at the least as the team's fifth bolwer. Not too many players did that better than Kallis.

Weird definition I reckon; I consider the #8 batting slot to be as important as the fifth bowler, all other things equal. Your definition seems skewed towards batting allrounders.

BoyBrumby · 15-12-2012, 05:58 AM

I'd really like to have chosen a keeper first, tbh.

His batting is a factor in the picking of #6.

Faulkner, as is tho.

AndyZaltzHair · 15-12-2012, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyear2

Faulkner's numbers could be somewhat misleading.

Againts Australia he averaged 62 with the bat and 50 (s/r 81) with the ball
Againts England he averaged 30 with the bat and 21 (s/r 45) with the ball

With the bat he only had two good years where he averaged over 23

1906 - 18
1907 - 23
1910 - 66
1911 - 69
1912 - 19
1924 - 18

From this it seems that he only batted well in good batting conditions and bowled well in helpful bowling conditions and in both instances struggled in the other dicipline. His batting also showed inconsistentcy and frankly cames across as a FTB with both bat and ball.

This year by year analysis of Faulkner is faulty.

In 1906, Faulkner played one series against England and the conditions were extremely tough. Low scores were made mostly through out the series and England hardly reached 200 in the series. South Africa won it 4-1. Faulkner did not get to bat in 2 Innings, remained Not Out in one and got run out in one. Most of the batting failed in the series, can't only nitpick Faulkner there.

In 1907, also one series against England and he remained Not Out in the drawn 1st Match, scorecard read like this in 2nd Match- 76 (Eng), 110 (SA), 162 (Eng), 75 (SA); Faulkner picked up 6/17 in 11 overs. Faulkner went out to open for the first time (?) in 3rd Match and scored 2, 42 in a drawn match.

Quote:

The return of the English side to South Africa in 1909/10 for a five Test series saw Faulkner at the height of his skills and had many, including Wisden, calling him the best all-rounder in the world, as he was the leading run scorer from either team, scoring 545 runs at 60.55 and the second highest wicket taker with 29 at 21.89. Faulkner then carried this form into his next series, against Australia in Australia in 1910/11. In the five Test series, Faulkner scored 732 runs at 73.20, including a highest score of 204 in the second Test at Melbourne and took 10 wickets at 51.40.

One could argue he had only one bad year that was when he lost his form in 1912 after scoring 122* against Australia. In 1924, he played only one Test Match.

Rasimione · 15-12-2012, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyear2

An All Rounder to me is someone who can legitimately bat in the top order (at worst # 7) and also servive at the least as the team's fifth bolwer. Not too many players did that better than Kallis.

you're definition of an allrounder is a tad one sided. what about bowling allrounders ala Shaun pollock or mike procter? my understanding of an all Rounder is one who is great or outstanding in one discipline and can do the other one quite well. as for the analysis on Faulkner and his perfomances, we can only go by his stats and like it or not his stats are compelling IMO.

Garson007 · 15-12-2012, 07:27 AM

My definition: An all-rounder is someone that wins you runs; someone who averages more with the bat than the ball.

14-12-2012, 07:02 PM	#181 (permalink)
Jager International Debutant Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: The land of Siddle Posts: 2,876	Taylor __________________ Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

14-12-2012, 07:47 PM	#182 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,506	Taylor __________________ 1st XI Hutton \| Hobbs \| Bradman \| Richards \| Tendulkar \| Sobers \| Gilchrist \| Khan \| Marshall \| Warne \| McGrath 2nd XI Sutcliffe \| Gavaskar \| Headley \| Chappell \| Lara \| Kallis \| Miller \| Knott \| Ambrose \| Lillee \| Muralitharan 3rd XI Greenidge \| Morris \| Ponting \| Pollock \| Hammond \| Worrell \| Ames \| Hadlee \| Holding \| Trueman \| O'Reilly 4th XI Richards \| Simpson \| Sangakkara \| Weekes \| Border \| Walcott \| Botham \| Lindwall \| Laker \| Garner \| Barnes

14-12-2012, 10:32 PM	#184 (permalink)
JBMAC State Vice-Captain Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Qld/Australia Posts: 1,304	Mike Procter __________________ Keep Your Feet on The Ground,Keep Reaching for The Stars!

15-12-2012, 05:58 AM	#192 (permalink)
BoyBrumby Englishman Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Doing the stance Posts: 42,641	I'd really like to have chosen a keeper first, tbh. His batting is a factor in the picking of #6. Faulkner, as is tho. __________________ *- As featured in The Independent.* "This is not the time for namby-pamby promising youngsters who might just do something; not the time for building for the future. Pragmatism rules and they don't come more pragmatic than Rogers." - Victor Marks makes the case for stiff-legged and stiff-armed 35 year old left-handers in Ashes squads

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14-12-2012, 09:58 PM	#183 (permalink)
Days of Grace International Regular Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Takasaki, Japan Posts: 3,855	Faulkner. Averaged over 40 in the golden age. Could hold a bat.

15-12-2012, 01:26 AM	#185 (permalink)
Garson007 U19 Captain Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Africa Posts: 609	Procter.

15-12-2012, 04:53 AM	#186 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,506	Faulkner's numbers could be somewhat misleading. Againts Australia he averaged 62 with the bat and 50 (s/r 81) with the ball Againts England he averaged 30 with the bat and 21 (s/r 45) with the ball With the bat he only had two good years where he averaged over 23 1906 - 18 1907 - 23 1910 - 66 1911 - 69 1912 - 19 1924 - 18 From this it seems that he only batted well in good batting conditions and bowled well in helpful bowling conditions and in both instances struggled in the other dicipline. His batting also showed inconsistentcy and frankly cames across as a FTB with both bat and ball. Again Kallis is the second best All Rounder to play the game and the team is good enough with hin supporting three great quicks (Steyn, Donald and Procter) with Tayfied as the spinning option.

15-12-2012, 04:58 AM	#187 (permalink)
zorax First Class Debutant Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 880	Procter is good for me.

15-12-2012, 05:19 AM	#189 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,506	An All Rounder to me is someone who can legitimately bat in the top order (at worst # 7) and also servive at the least as the team's fifth bolwer. Not too many players did that better than Kallis.

15-12-2012, 07:27 AM	#195 (permalink)
Garson007 U19 Captain Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Africa Posts: 609	My definition: An all-rounder is someone that wins you runs; someone who averages more with the bat than the ball.

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