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Thread: South Africa ATG - Open Voting

  1. #181
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Taylor
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  2. #182
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Taylor
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  3. #183
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Faulkner. Averaged over 40 in the golden age. Could hold a bat.

  4. #184
    State Vice-Captain JBMAC's Avatar
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    Mike Procter
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  5. #185
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    Procter.

  6. #186
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Faulkner's numbers could be somewhat misleading.

    Againts Australia he averaged 62 with the bat and 50 (s/r 81) with the ball
    Againts England he averaged 30 with the bat and 21 (s/r 45) with the ball

    With the bat he only had two good years where he averaged over 23

    1906 - 18
    1907 - 23
    1910 - 66
    1911 - 69
    1912 - 19
    1924 - 18

    From this it seems that he only batted well in good batting conditions and bowled well in helpful bowling conditions and in both instances struggled in the other dicipline. His batting also showed inconsistentcy and frankly cames across as a FTB with both bat and ball.

    Again Kallis is the second best All Rounder to play the game and the team is good enough with hin supporting three great quicks (Steyn, Donald and Procter) with Tayfied as the spinning option.

  7. #187
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    Procter is good for me.

  8. #188
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Again Kallis is the second best All Rounder to play the game and the team is good enough with hin supporting three great quicks (Steyn, Donald and Procter) with Tayfied as the spinning option.
    You say that like it's a fact - Kallis being the second best ever is highly debatable, as a batting-orientated allrounder he's definitely there for me though

  9. #189
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    An All Rounder to me is someone who can legitimately bat in the top order (at worst # 7) and also servive at the least as the team's fifth bolwer. Not too many players did that better than Kallis.

  10. #190
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    again kallis is the second best all rounder to play the game and the team is good enough with him supporting three great quicks (steyn, donald and procter) with tayfied as the spinning option.
    +1

  11. #191
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    An All Rounder to me is someone who can legitimately bat in the top order (at worst # 7) and also servive at the least as the team's fifth bolwer. Not too many players did that better than Kallis.
    Weird definition I reckon; I consider the #8 batting slot to be as important as the fifth bowler, all other things equal. Your definition seems skewed towards batting allrounders.
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  12. #192
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    I'd really like to have chosen a keeper first, tbh.

    His batting is a factor in the picking of #6.

    Faulkner, as is tho.
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  13. #193
    International 12th Man AndyZaltzHair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Faulkner's numbers could be somewhat misleading.

    Againts Australia he averaged 62 with the bat and 50 (s/r 81) with the ball
    Againts England he averaged 30 with the bat and 21 (s/r 45) with the ball

    With the bat he only had two good years where he averaged over 23

    1906 - 18
    1907 - 23
    1910 - 66
    1911 - 69
    1912 - 19
    1924 - 18

    From this it seems that he only batted well in good batting conditions and bowled well in helpful bowling conditions and in both instances struggled in the other dicipline. His batting also showed inconsistentcy and frankly cames across as a FTB with both bat and ball.
    This year by year analysis of Faulkner is faulty.

    In 1906, Faulkner played one series against England and the conditions were extremely tough. Low scores were made mostly through out the series and England hardly reached 200 in the series. South Africa won it 4-1. Faulkner did not get to bat in 2 Innings, remained Not Out in one and got run out in one. Most of the batting failed in the series, can't only nitpick Faulkner there.

    In 1907, also one series against England and he remained Not Out in the drawn 1st Match, scorecard read like this in 2nd Match- 76 (Eng), 110 (SA), 162 (Eng), 75 (SA); Faulkner picked up 6/17 in 11 overs. Faulkner went out to open for the first time (?) in 3rd Match and scored 2, 42 in a drawn match.

    The return of the English side to South Africa in 1909/10 for a five Test series saw Faulkner at the height of his skills and had many, including Wisden, calling him the best all-rounder in the world, as he was the leading run scorer from either team, scoring 545 runs at 60.55 and the second highest wicket taker with 29 at 21.89. Faulkner then carried this form into his next series, against Australia in Australia in 1910/11. In the five Test series, Faulkner scored 732 runs at 73.20, including a highest score of 204 in the second Test at Melbourne and took 10 wickets at 51.40.
    One could argue he had only one bad year that was when he lost his form in 1912 after scoring 122* against Australia. In 1924, he played only one Test Match.
    Last edited by AndyZaltzHair; 15-12-2012 at 07:11 AM.
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  14. #194
    U19 12th Man Rasimione's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    An All Rounder to me is someone who can legitimately bat in the top order (at worst # 7) and also servive at the least as the team's fifth bolwer. Not too many players did that better than Kallis.
    you're definition of an allrounder is a tad one sided. what about bowling allrounders ala Shaun pollock or mike procter? my understanding of an all Rounder is one who is great or outstanding in one discipline and can do the other one quite well. as for the analysis on Faulkner and his perfomances, we can only go by his stats and like it or not his stats are compelling IMO.

  15. #195
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    My definition: An all-rounder is someone that wins you runs; someone who averages more with the bat than the ball.

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