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Thread: High Correlation between India's Performance and Team Managers - Coincidental?

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    International Captain weldone's Avatar
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    High Correlation between India's Performance and Team Managers - Coincidental?

    It's weird because I don't believe Managers should have too big influence in the International cricket arena logically. But it's very shocking to see the correlation our results have to the managers of our National team in the recent past. And I am not talking about Test Cricket alone, it's very evident in ODI arena as well. Don't know what causes it, as I would like to believe there's more to the story than changing managers. But the correlations are staggering -

    John Wright - Very Successful (Success in Tests away from home and reaching the World Cup finals, becoming the only side to somewhat threaten the mighty Aussies in both formats consistently)

    Greg Chappell - Unsuccessful (though not nearly as much as Wright he had moderate success in Test matches, but India suddenly became pathetic in ODIs including the World Cup first round exit)

    Gary Kirsten - Super Successful (India's no. 1 ranking in Tests; World Cup win; Tendulkar, Zaheer, Sehwag and Laxman's super-resurgence in form -- enough said)

    Duncan Fletcher - Utterly Unsuccessful thus far (0-8 and pathetic show in the ongoing home series by India's standards - enough said)
    Last edited by weldone; 07-12-2012 at 12:12 AM.
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    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Seems clear that India haven't bought into the Fletcher way of thinking. Where do they go from here though?

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    Most of Wright and Kirsten's success can be attributed to a bunch of players hitting their collective peaks at the same time. Off field strategy can only count for so much if your eleven on the park can't execute plans you lay out for them.

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    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Things like team culture etc. are sort of the coach's job to enforce, though.
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    International Captain weldone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnodouche View Post
    Most of Wright and Kirsten's success can be attributed to a bunch of players hitting their collective peaks at the same time. Off field strategy can only count for so much if your eleven on the park can't execute plans you lay out for them.
    But can't a lot of those 'hitting their collective peaks' be attributed to Managers, and how they looked after individual talents?

    Tendulkar, for example, has thanked Kirsten numerous times for the hour-long throwdowns day-after-day during his 2008-10 super-resurgence in form.

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Things like team culture etc. are sort of the coach's job to enforce, though.
    Fletcher was always going to be a bad fit because, personality wise, he's a bit of a control freak and has some very set ideas about how things should go (loves the forward press, bowlers must be able to bowl 85mph+, spinners must bat, etc) and behaves like a sulky child when things don't go his own way.

    If what's commonly acknowledged about certain senior players largely calling the shots for the Indian national side is true there was always going to be friction if they didn't buy in.

    &, judging by the fielding with Penney (one of the very best fielding coaches) in situ, it's a fair guess they haven't.
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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    I think there's only so much Fletcher or any coach can do if the BCCI keep picking players on so-called reputation rather than actual merit/performance.

    Having said that though, can't help but think that if India do actually pick some young players they might be better off getting a younger, coach who wis more willing to be involved.
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    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    The player management system here in this team is dreadful, if you look at the mounting player losses over time- players are either lost forever or just not as good as when they started out. It's not about one or two blokes, but an entire batch- many of whom could make a difference, but sadly, their replacements are simply not up to scratch.

    A classic case is Amit Mishra, who had a dreadful Test in A'bad and was declared an extra ever since, and never recovered, and had a dreadful tour of England. He's now no longer in the frame for national selection, while the replacements, both Ojha and Ashwin, are shown up to be way below international standard a lot sooner- and they were picked a little ahead of their time anyway. They haven't found a replacement for Irfan Pathan and it has offset the balance of the side and weakened the bowling. They're only stuck with Ishant Sharma because that replacement, Dinda, is utter rubbish. No effort has been made to help Varun Aaron return to full fitness. They're now trying to phase out Sehwag and Gambhir with lesser replacements.

    The losses keep mounting, and staying in the hunt for the top of the rankings will be impossible if these losses are not just stemmed, but reversed.
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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    It took Fletcher to basically have a side that had debuted under his reign, plus a couple of extras, for him to mould them into a top few outfit.

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    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Obviously you haven't read his book because every side he went to he made better.

    Either that or he's a tool.
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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Nah, I read his book, paid two quid for it in a charity shop in Oldham, and then donated the book right back after I'd finished it.

    Was the only good to ever come from the book.

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    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Haha.I actually found it an interesting read but my opinion of him lowered with every page.

    I read his Ashes Regained book when he was still coach and was alarmed by some of his quotes in that but the autobio...oh my.

    Not helped by me being a massive Freddie fanboy, of course. ****'s CV only became noteworthy thanks to Freddie anyway. Wanker.

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Found it massively entertaining, actually. Read it in two or three sittings. Car crash lit.

    Guy has a massive, massive ego and is literally never wrong about anything ever. Still think Steve James might not be such a good mate as Fletcher thinks he is because James is a very clever fella and must've not been unaware quite what a cock Big Dunc was making himself sound.

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    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Haha I'm sure you've said that before

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    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    haven't read but honestly could tell by his head he is a massive ****stick
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