**Official** New Zealand in South Africa - Page 6

Flametree · 07-12-2012, 11:34 PM

Since that series six and a half years ago, Franklin's scored 325 runs for 17 times out. This is at the time he's being picked primarily as a batsmen. I know he's been in and out of the side a lot but still, that's nowhere near enough.

So yes, I probably do think Fulton would do better. Though I'd prefer the squad had included another allrounder like Neesham or Munro....

Prince EWS · 07-12-2012, 11:36 PM

I think the Fulton selection is a borderline disgrace personally. It's been overshadowed by the Taylor fiasco (and tbf probably wouldn't have happened without it) but the bloke is a real proven Test failure. We're not just talking about someone who started well at Test level and then faded away, or showed bright spots but just didn't quite cut it; we're talking about someone with one fifty and zero centuries in 16 Test innings - i.e an extended run with absolutely no success. His last series was an embarrassment of poor footwork to a ridiculous extreme. Even all that would be excusable in the circumstances if he'd been consistently one of the best batsmen in New Zealand over the last few seasons, but he didn't manage to hit a ton last season or the season before, and in fact his overall record has been far worse since his last dropping than it was before it. He hasn't improved as a batsman since his last stint in the side; he's actually declined, dramatically. And all that can be wiped away because he's had a decent start to this season apparently.

I actually used to really like Fulton, and I tasted his Test failures. I thought he'd be a decent Test batsman for New Zealand and I was proven very, very wrong. If the selectors wanted an experienced top order option to replace Taylor they should have picked Sinclair - someone who actually has had some Test success, including one of New Zealand's best ever innings on one of the grounds a Test is being this tour - and someone who has been consistently good season to season in domestic cricket. I'm fine with Sinclair not being picked if he's had his cards marked for previous failures and the selectors want to look at younger or newer options, but Fulton? Really? I can only assume it's because he's been opening the batting the season but I don't believe for a second he's actually more suited to it than Skippy anyway.

I'd actually be stoked if Fulton did well because I've always liked him and I'm a sucker for a older player making a comeback and doing well (Misbah

) so be prepared for my bandwagoning if he does well, but I think it's a poor pick.

Chewie · 07-12-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

I think the Fulton selection is a borderline disgrace personally. It's been overshadowed by the Taylor fiasco (and tbf probably wouldn't have happened without it) but the bloke is a real proven Test failure. We're not just talking about someone who started well at Test level and then faded away, or showed bright spots but just didn't quite cut it; we're talking about someone with one fifty and zero centuries in 16 Test innings - i.e an extended run with absolutely no success. His last series was an embarrassment of poor footwork to a ridiculous extreme. Even all that would be excusable in the circumstances if he'd been consistently one of the best batsmen in New Zealand over the last few seasons, but he didn't manage to hit a ton last season or the season before, and in fact his overall record has been far worse since his last dropping than it was before it. He hasn't improved as a batsman since his last stint in the side; he's actually declined, dramatically. And all that can be wiped away because he's had a decent start to this season apparently.

I actually used to really like Fulton, and I tasted his Test failures. I thought he'd be a decent Test batsman for New Zealand and I was proven very, very wrong. If the selectors wanted an experienced top order option to replace Taylor they should have picked Sinclair - someone who actually has had some Test success, including one of New Zealand's best ever innings on one of the grounds a Test is being this tour - and someone who has been consistently good season to season in domestic cricket. I'm fine with Sinclair not being picked if he's had his cards marked for previous failures and the selectors want to look at younger or newer options, but Fulton? Really? I can only assume it's because he's been opening the batting the season but I don't believe for a second he's actually more suited to it than Skippy anyway.

I'd actually be stoked if Fulton did well because I've always liked him and I'm a sucker for a older player making a comeback and doing well (Misbah

) so be prepared for my bandwagoning if he does well, but I think it's a poor pick.

There was an article in the paper today which was basically Sinclair and Vincent bitching about how they should keep getting opportunities even though they've been tried and failed many times because they've been scoring runs domestically and that the selectors should just pick the people that have been scoring runs

Prince EWS · 08-12-2012, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewie

There was an article in the paper today which was basically Sinclair and Vincent bitching about how they should keep getting opportunities even though they've been tried and failed many times because they've been scoring runs domestically and that the selectors should just pick the people that have been scoring runs

I don't even completely disagree, but Fulton has scored bugger all runs since getting dropped years ago and now he's suddenly back in the side after half a good season? WTF?

Mike5181 · 08-12-2012, 12:10 AM

Would've been an ideal time for Neil Broom to get a call up if they were looking for a player with a little bit of first-class experience, but he's not in great form so it's understandable they didn't go there.

straw man · 08-12-2012, 12:48 AM

Mike you are obsessed with Neil Broom

Agree with PEWs on Fulton. But oh well, it will just another train wreck in slow-mo.

Prensel · 08-12-2012, 01:09 AM

They should put Munro in the test squad.

He can replace Franklin.

African Monkey · 08-12-2012, 02:06 AM

Peter Fulton couldn't get his feet moving to Mohammad Asif and Umar Gul in our own conditions yet the selectors think he'll succeed against Steyn, Morkel and Philander on the worlds quickest pitches at 34 years old

. FMD.

NZTailender · 08-12-2012, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewie

There was an article in the paper today which was basically Sinclair and Vincent bitching about how they should keep getting opportunities even though they've been tried and failed many times because they've been scoring runs domestically and that the selectors should just pick the people that have been scoring runs

Vincent's Test average: 34.15
Williamson: 32.71
Sinclair: 32.05
Guptill: 32
Brownlie: 31.25
Watling: 30
Flynn: 28.22
Franklin 21.21

Of those going to SA only McCullum has a better average. If Vincent got into some FC form I don't think a recall would be unreasonable.

jcas0167 · 08-12-2012, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewie

There was an article in the paper today which was basically Sinclair and Vincent bitching about how they should keep getting opportunities even though they've been tried and failed many times because they've been scoring runs domestically and that the selectors should just pick the people that have been scoring runs

I was disgusted that they overlooked Lou Vincent when Australia were touring here in 2010. He was available after ICL and other issues, in form and instead they went with Peter Ingram to replace the injured Ryder.

Now, Ingram had done well in domestic cricket but it seemed risky to introduce him and his unique technique against the Aussies when they had a guy like Vincent ready to go. He is one of the big wasted talents over the past decade. Remember his hundred on debut (and fifty in second innings) opening at the WACA?

hendrix · 08-12-2012, 03:01 AM

Seriously, if you're going to pick a guy in his 30s then Sinclair and Vincent legitimately do have more claim than guys like Fulton.

The other big question is whether Guptill should be on this tour, given his poor form. If he wasn't going I could understand a comeback replacement. But I'd definitely opt for Vincent instead.

Mike5181 · 08-12-2012, 03:04 AM

Vincent had other problems [depression, ICL] etc that didn't help either tbf. Looking at some of the players we have tried in the past, he should have played more test cricket. He never really delivered to the level his talent suggested he could though, and his first-class and OD records show that.

Bahnz · 08-12-2012, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcas0167

Remember his hundred on debut (and fifty in second innings) opening at the WACA?

Remember much else that he did?

NZTailender · 08-12-2012, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike5181

Vincent had other problems [depression, ICL] etc that didn't help either tbf. Looking at some of the players we have tried in the past, he should have played more test cricket. He never really delivered to the level his talent suggested he could though, and his first-class and OD records show that.

There were various factors as to why Vincent hasn't played more. At the same time, he hasn't lived up to his potential, but not successfully becoming an opener and being a victim of the biomechanics school of batting also has played a part.

straw man · 08-12-2012, 05:44 AM

iirc after Vincent returned from the ICL he announced his intention to play for NZ again, scored some domestic T20 runs, then threw a public tanty when he wasn't picked straight away for the next NZ test series. This after making a big scene before storming off to the ICL in the first place.

He was hard done by pre-ICL a couple of times by the selectors but no way he deserves to have played tests since then.

07-12-2012, 11:36 PM	#77 (permalink)
Prince EWS Global Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New South Wales Posts: 37,728	I think the Fulton selection is a borderline disgrace personally. It's been overshadowed by the Taylor fiasco (and tbf probably wouldn't have happened without it) but the bloke is a real proven Test failure. We're not just talking about someone who started well at Test level and then faded away, or showed bright spots but just didn't quite cut it; we're talking about someone with one fifty and zero centuries in 16 Test innings - i.e an extended run with absolutely no success. His last series was an embarrassment of poor footwork to a ridiculous extreme. Even all that would be excusable in the circumstances if he'd been consistently one of the best batsmen in New Zealand over the last few seasons, but he didn't manage to hit a ton last season or the season before, and in fact his overall record has been far worse since his last dropping than it was before it. He hasn't improved as a batsman since his last stint in the side; he's actually declined, dramatically. And all that can be wiped away because he's had a decent start to this season apparently. I actually used to really like Fulton, and I tasted his Test failures. I thought he'd be a decent Test batsman for New Zealand and I was proven very, very wrong. If the selectors wanted an experienced top order option to replace Taylor they should have picked Sinclair - someone who actually has had some Test success, including one of New Zealand's best ever innings on one of the grounds a Test is being this tour - and someone who has been consistently good season to season in domestic cricket. I'm fine with Sinclair not being picked if he's had his cards marked for previous failures and the selectors want to look at younger or newer options, but Fulton? Really? I can only assume it's because he's been opening the batting the season but I don't believe for a second he's actually more suited to it than Skippy anyway. I'd actually be stoked if Fulton did well because I've always liked him and I'm a sucker for a older player making a comeback and doing well (Misbah ) so be prepared for my bandwagoning if he does well, but I think it's a poor pick. __________________ ~ Cribbage Last edited by Prince EWS; 07-12-2012 at 11:39 PM.

08-12-2012, 03:04 AM	#87 (permalink)
Mike5181 International Regular Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: City of Sails Posts: 3,397	Vincent had other problems [depression, ICL] etc that didn't help either tbf. Looking at some of the players we have tried in the past, he should have played more test cricket. He never really delivered to the level his talent suggested he could though, and his first-class and OD records show that. Last edited by Mike5181; 08-12-2012 at 03:05 AM.

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07-12-2012, 11:34 PM	#76 (permalink)
Flametree U19 Cricketer Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: New Zealand Posts: 497	Since that series six and a half years ago, Franklin's scored 325 runs for 17 times out. This is at the time he's being picked primarily as a batsmen. I know he's been in and out of the side a lot but still, that's nowhere near enough. So yes, I probably do think Fulton would do better. Though I'd prefer the squad had included another allrounder like Neesham or Munro....

08-12-2012, 12:10 AM	#80 (permalink)
Mike5181 International Regular Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: City of Sails Posts: 3,397	Would've been an ideal time for Neil Broom to get a call up if they were looking for a player with a little bit of first-class experience, but he's not in great form so it's understandable they didn't go there.

08-12-2012, 12:48 AM	#81 (permalink)
straw man International Vice-Captain Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: l Posts: 4,914	Mike you are obsessed with Neil Broom Agree with PEWs on Fulton. But oh well, it will just another train wreck in slow-mo.

08-12-2012, 01:09 AM	#82 (permalink)
Prensel School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: New Zealand Posts: 78	They should put Munro in the test squad. He can replace Franklin.

08-12-2012, 02:06 AM	#83 (permalink)
African Monkey U19 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: auckland nz Posts: 216	Peter Fulton couldn't get his feet moving to Mohammad Asif and Umar Gul in our own conditions yet the selectors think he'll succeed against Steyn, Morkel and Philander on the worlds quickest pitches at 34 years old . FMD.

08-12-2012, 03:01 AM	#86 (permalink)
hendrix State Vice-Captain Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,294	Seriously, if you're going to pick a guy in his 30s then Sinclair and Vincent legitimately do have more claim than guys like Fulton. The other big question is whether Guptill should be on this tour, given his poor form. If he wasn't going I could understand a comeback replacement. But I'd definitely opt for Vincent instead.

08-12-2012, 05:44 AM	#90 (permalink)
straw man International Vice-Captain Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: l Posts: 4,914	iirc after Vincent returned from the ICL he announced his intention to play for NZ again, scored some domestic T20 runs, then threw a public tanty when he wasn't picked straight away for the next NZ test series. This after making a big scene before storming off to the ICL in the first place. He was hard done by pre-ICL a couple of times by the selectors but no way he deserves to have played tests since then.

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