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Thread: **Official** New Zealand in South Africa

  1. #2311
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    Rubbish result while McCullum sounds more like a politician with every passing day.

  2. #2312
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    can't bruce m just bowl to dean brownlie for 2/3 days in the nets to fix up his problems with spin.

    Anyway - a pity that Brownlie had to get out. If he could've made SA bat again that would have been a moral achievement for NZ.

    Still we got blown out - but not decimated at least.
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  3. #2313
    International Vice-Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    I know that we'd all love it to be otherwise, but there's no way that that trio won't be selected for the 2nd test.
    AWTA. Baring injury it'll be the same team in the second Test.

    Just for the LOLs.....
    In the last 5 years...

    JEC Franklin, 10 tests played, batting average 18.93, bowling average 107.16
    JS Patel, 17 tests played, batting average 11.31, bowling average 47.27

  4. #2314
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    To clutch at straws, even with the drop if Brownlie can bat with that application against everyone else, especially teams with weaker attacks than SA, England and Australia, he will have a reasonable test career. Likewise Watling's 40 would be 80 against some other teams.

    The fly in the ointment with my prediction though is the teams with the crappiest pacers for Brownlie to exploit have some of the leading left arm spinners. Pakistan are the only team to mix an acceptable pace attack with a world class slow left armer.

    I didn't see Jeets bowl so I can't comment on how he looked, but if he looked like old innocuous Jeets bring in Bruce Martin because he actually turns the ball appreciably on surfaces like Colin Munro Motorway and because I'm a grump. Yeah yeah I know I said Jeets bowled well in SL, and he did. GAGF.

    I really don't think Wagner should be in the top five pace options and I hope McClenaghan hasn't jumped the queue based on 20/20 but Marto needs to go so bring in Mitch M. His record for Auckland, considering his home ground is also Colin Munro Motorway, is passable and he's the best option left in the squad because the last thing we need right now is 130kph long hop version of Wagner turning up to land the ball on the shiny side and ruin it for the others.

    Colin Munro to come in for Franko and either entertain us by trolling SA or get shown he can't bat on his motorway every game. A quick stats check says he averages 78 at Eden Park. (tbf he's only played 5 matches away from home). It will be good for him to be shown what he needs to work on if he fails now rather than on some future date.

    **** knows what to do with the opener. Hamish Rutherford is the only name who springs to mind but he's no batting savior and isn't scoring FC runs this season anyway. Might as well elevate Franklin and tell him to just slog.

    Guptill's a weird one. When he first came into the test team he played them like ODIs - consistent 30s and 40s before playing a poor stroke. Now he tries to bat properly and can't get to 20.

    /rant
    Last edited by Flem274*; 04-01-2013 at 03:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
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    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  5. #2315
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Nz supporters should feel a bit better about the effort second time around. Hopefully something to build on when you're playing a side as good as this SA one.
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  6. #2316
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Second test I'd bring Wagner in for Martin. Admittedly I didn't see much of the Windies test that Wagner played, but I don't see how people can write Wagner off after just that and then suggest McClenaghan plays on the back of looking good in T20s. Not that it's a big reason but Wagner would also improve that hopeless lower order batting of ours.

    Undecided on Franklin vs Munro - it's dropping someone useless vs handing out a cap to someone who doesn't quite deserve it yet. Gotta remember probably neither of them will play vs England at home. I wouldn't complain if Munro is selected.

    Don't think there's any point dropping Patel for B.Martin. If we must play a spinner next match then leave Patel in and then consider him vs Vettori/quick#4 for the home England series.

  7. #2317
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    1 - Swap Flynn and Guptill around. Martin is a dangerous bat, give him a chance in a different spot and Flynn is very limited so is suited to opening. I basically think he can last longer than anyone else and buy making him open it means there are better bats in the middle order now to take advantage of the situation.
    It's not a terrible idea to promote Flynn if we have no other openers (true) and someone else is taking Flynn's middle order spot (currently false). I wouldn't do it next test, but the availability of Ryder and Vettori for the home England series may dictate that, especially now Brownlie has secured his place.

    If Flynn was promoted to open then Guptill would just be dropped as there wouldn't be a middle order place for him.

    I still don't think Flynn is either quite as limited or quite as good on defense/leaving as some do, so I think he'd be passable at best as an opener. Hope he scores runs next test from number 5.

  8. #2318
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Bring Bruce Martin in for Franklin.

    Bruce can bat can't he? May as well take a punt on 2 spinners and his bowling will be more effective than Franklin's anyway.

    Flynn and Guptill to switch positions.

  9. #2319
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    Why the **** are we suddenly so intent on playing a full-time spinner in SA ffs? It's beyond me. Drop Jeets, Franklin, and Martin. Bring in Mitch, Munro, and WAGner. done.
    Last edited by wellAlbidarned; 04-01-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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  10. #2320
    International Regular Kippax's Avatar
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    Wagner may well come in, PE would seem to fit this 'slow and abrasive pitch = h4x Wagner reverse' theory they're enamoured with. (Hesson the Otago coach for the most notable day it actually happened with that five-wicket FC over, ftr).
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  11. #2321
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    Why the **** are we suddenly so intent on playing a full-time spinner in SA ffs? It's beyond me. Drop Jeets, Franklin, and Martin. Bring in Mitch, Munro, and WAGner. done.
    I thought one of the SA posters just said that the next pitch will take spin.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    I think you will need a spinner at PE.
    Last edited by Hurricane; 04-01-2013 at 06:29 PM.

  12. #2322
    International Debutant M0rphin3's Avatar
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    Played Brownlie. Don't rate him all that high, but bloody good innings, that.

    Wagner in, Martin out.
    Last edited by M0rphin3; 04-01-2013 at 08:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by mudrunner View Post
    give 21yo smith a break. bradmans figures for his first few tests were comparable.....

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  13. #2323
    International Debutant ohnoitsyou's Avatar
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    Time for my rant thats been building for the last few days , will keep it to the short side

    Think i will start with the captaincy, McCullum doesn't have a ****ing clue. I mean when your hunting for wickets you put on your best bowlers. Sure Taylor's bowling changes weren't always perfect, but McCullum has earned the right to be criticized by replacing him . I know for certain that Taylor would have sent Southee in to wrap up the middle/lower order once we got the breakthrough wickets. Sure we dont have either, but Boult is our spearhead now, and he was picking up big wickets. Persisting with whoever he was bowling (jeets and martin i think?) just screamed defeatist by McCullum. Sure the game was lost, but we are NZ cricket ffs, we are used to losing. Every game we need to go out there to win, but if it doesn't need likely, we need to put up the best performance we can.

    Next up, wtf are we doing playing a spinner like jeets. With our current squad, whatever team we field will most likely consist of 4 bowlers, an allrounder and williamson and guptill, who bowl decent part time spin. With 5 bowlerers + extras, we dont exactly need someone to bowl long spells, if we played 7 bat + 4 bowl, yes then a spinner would be crucial. Neither Jeets or B martin are anywhere near close to our top 5 bowlers so there is no reason we should play them unless its a turning pitch, but even then the spinner needs to bowl tightly for the first few days, and that wont happen with Jeets, he will be taken to the boundary time after time, without picking up many wickets. Sure on day 5 he might do well, but when your useless for the other four days it isnt worth it. Kind of makes me wish for Vettori back, at least he could bowl tightly and bat a little bit.

    Dont really need to go on about franklin apart from saying he is a useless ****, but while he continues to pick up occasional big wickets and Bondy thinks he can bring his bowling up to scratch he will continue to be picked. Speaking of Bond, what a legend, great bowler even better coach, he is bringing along our pace prospects amazing. Sadly our batting coach isn't up to the same standard. His batting average speaks for itself. The argument that good players don't necessarily make good coaches is bs for skill coaches (and if your last name is Hesson). Martin Crowe knows what it is like to go out and bat at the crease against some of the best bowlers in the world, and the skills and mentality required to survive. Whats his face only has a textbook made decades ago, and players like Amla and many others show that it is completely outdated. Bring in Crowe or a decent foreigner and our batsmen might start improving. Nothing to say about Hesson except jump in a well and drown.

    Really disappointed with Guptill's form, he is just not there mentally. A couple of county and domestic seasons, and then an easy tour against a minnow would be ideal to get his confidence back, which should improve his playing immensely.

    For the immediate future either Flynn or Watling need to step up to opening, both have ideal temperaments and as good as a technique as can be found in NZ. Sure it would be a big workload for Watling, but its not much different from batting through the tail and immediately keeping afterwards, and McCullum could always take the gloves for 20-40 overs to give him a break, MC has to be good for something except a few 50s.

    Bracewell is improving but he has to make away with that back of the length seamer nonsense. Back of the length seamers tend to get their wickets when they pitch it up a bit anyways

    Bondy is on the right track with keeping our test bowlers away from a few LO games, but imo he needs to take it further, keep blooding players in T20, and serious bowlers playing the longer forms.

    Martin sadly has booked himself a spot in the next game, dont see him getting wickets against batters determined to stay in though.

    So for the next game i want to see
    McCullum
    Guptill
    Williamson
    Brownlie
    Flynn
    Watling
    Munro
    Wagner
    Bracewell
    Boult
    McClenaghan

    Waggy definetely needs another game, if only to prove that he is **** and shoudnt be in the squad. McClen deserves a go as well, dont see him getting one, but some pace and aggresion would be great. Munro to do something hopefully. Not sure which one to be Boults new ball partner, but there is a lot of swinging potential there.
    Or if the pitch is a turner (i dont check these things out until the game starts )

    McCullum
    Guptill
    Williamson
    Brownlie
    Flynn
    Watling
    Munro
    B Martin
    Wagner
    Bracewell
    Boult
    Wow a tail that can actually bat incredible! B Martin might not be the greatest but he should get a go seeing how average has been, would be a great reward for a long service to domestic cricket and should be able to keep things tight, even if his skidding style is unlikely to get wickets

  14. #2324
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  15. #2325
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    In the final test last season against South Africa at the Basin Reserve, Flynn was brought in and did reasonably well opening with Guptill in the first innings. I thought Flynn looked good there, playing the nuggety left hander role ala Justin Langer. I can't remember why he went back to the middle order but I think he should switch places with either Guptill or McCullum.

    I'd like to see Bruce Martin get an opportunity. I think he would offer a more attacking spin option. Also, it's terrible for morale to see a guy backing away like Patel was.

    Finally, if Wagner has worked with Bond and got back to the pace he had when he rolled Wellington I'd put him in ahead of Bracewell.



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