• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

**Official** New Zealand in South Africa

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
He took 76 wickets in 21 Tests @ 28 before his injury and subsequent pie-chucking, batsman impersonating comeback in 2008. That's the same amount of Tests as Southee has played so far in his career (for 65 wickets @ 35).
To be fair, his first couple of tests were in 2001 and he didn't play again until 2004.

He played 19 in that time between 2004-2007, though. Longer than 5 minutes (figuratively speaking) for mine.

Golden age of Franks
 

Mike5181

International Captain
Franklin was on the same level as someone like Daryl Tuffey. Slightly better than a Kyle Mills. He was useful, but he wasn't exactly world class or anything.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Yeah I know he was good, but that's not enough to cry underrated. It's a fragment of a career.
Sure, if you include now, his post injury specialist bat venture which has been a disaster really. But did you actually see him bowl? Slumping shoulders aside, he was actually a threatening bowler with pace, who could swing the ball really well. He had the tools of a proper fast bowler. I don't think many people remember this. That's why he was underrated. As EWS says, everyone will remember him for this stage of his career, and not that one.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Bingo. Getting on the park is a pretty important trait in rating a cricketer imo.
I don't think so. Chris Martin has had an amazing ability to stay on the park, but I don't rate him as being a better player for it. Just better at one aspect of being a professional cricketer.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Franklin also played lots of ODIs back then and his bowling was genuinely rubbish in those, which contributed to people underrating his test bowling.

Am sure this is one of those CW conversations that reappears every two years :p

Edit: Reckon Franklin might have averaged around 32-33 long term if continued as a bowler and didn't get injured. Have a feeling he had some favourable conditions and some luck on his side to boost those figures in the early days.
 
Last edited:

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Sure, if you include now, his post injury specialist bat venture which has been a disaster really. But did you actually see him bowl? Slumping shoulders aside, he was actually a threatening bowler with pace, who could swing the ball really well. He had the tools of a proper fast bowler. I don't think many people remember this. That's why he was underrated. As EWS says, everyone will remember him for this stage of his career, and not that one.
Yeah I did watch him bowl, and I'm treating modern frinks and classic frinks as completely different players. I'm saying he was good, but it wasn't incredible or sustained enough to make conclusions of him being underrated in his time. Okay, so he averaged 28. Cool. If you want to be considered an excellent player you do that across 50 matches, not 19.
 
Last edited:

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Yeah I did watch him bowl, and I'm treating modern frinks and classic frinks as completely different players. I'm saying he was good, but it wasn't incredible or sustained enough to make conclusions of him being underrated in his time. Okay, so he averaged 28. Cool. If you want to be considered a great player you do that across 50 matches, not 19.
Obviously. I'm not putting him down as an all-time great bowler, and I'm saying that for a time, he had the tools to become one and put in some great performances. And that a lot of people didn't rate him at the time despite being pretty darned good.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
I don't think so. Chris Martin has had an amazing ability to stay on the park, but I don't rate him as being a better player for it. Just better at one aspect of being a professional cricketer.
I disagree. That's where Martin's value as a cricketer lies. If he couldn't stay so consistently fit he'd barely be making his domestic side.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Yeah I did watch him bowl, and I'm treating modern frinks and classic frinks as completely different players. I'm saying he was good, but it wasn't incredible or sustained enough to make conclusions of him being underrated in his time. Okay, so he averaged 28. Cool. If you want to be considered an excellent player you do that across 50 matches, not 19.
You don't have to be a great player to be under-rated though. In fact you can be an absolutely awful player and still be under-rated if the general consensus of you is that of an even more vile player than you actually are.

Franklin was a good Test bowler for a period. That is being forgotten by many because of what the second half of his career has been like. Not by you, probably not even by too many New Zealanders on CW, but by a lot of semi-serious cricket fans and probably even serious ones from other countries as well. I'm not saying the he was ever world class or that he should go down as a great bowler for sustaining good bowling for ~ 20 Tests, but that doesn't mean he isn't under-rated. The longer this batting allrounder experiment goes on well after he's lost his bowling completely, the more under-rated his early bowling will get, as a lot of people will just remember him for this.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Obviously. I'm not putting him down as an all-time great bowler, and I'm saying that for a time, he had the tools to become one and put in some great performances. And that a lot of people didn't rate him at the time despite being pretty darned good.
Haha yeah I didn't mean excellent as in ATG, just that I thought he was rated pretty accurately for what he acheived.

I honestly don't know what people were saying about him at that point in his career as I wasn't exactly into internet forums at that age, so if that's what you're referring to we'll just leave it at that. :)
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Haha yeah I didn't mean excellent as in ATG, just that I thought he was rated pretty accurately for what he acheived.

I honestly don't know what people were saying about him at that point in his career as I wasn't exactly into internet forums at that age, so if that's what you're referring to we'll just leave it at that. :)
People weren't saying much about him at all, which is part of the point. His Test bowling, at any rate.

He was a pretty threatening bowler, which was reflected by his strike rate and economy.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
I don't think so. Chris Martin has had an amazing ability to stay on the park, but I don't rate him as being a better player for it. Just better at one aspect of being a professional cricketer.
I do. For a country who struggle to keep fast bowlers on the park for a whole series, let alone a summer, Tommy's ability to stay fit and lead the attack deserves plenty of plaudits.
 

ohnoitsyou

International Regular
Come on guys get realistic we need a genuine batsmen at number 7. As if the 5th bowler is going to add much more than the occasional wicket, and if we need to manage our bowlers, Vettori is there to bowl long tight spells and the part timers can chip a few in as well
Ideal situation:
7. Watling
8 Vettori
9. Bracewell/Wagner/whoever
10. Southee
11. Boult
 

Top