Should runs against India be discounted in statistical discussions?

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by zorax

The question I have now is why are we okay with out bowling being ****? Simply saying 'well, it always used to be ****, and we still used to win' isn't sufficient. Top sides need to excel in both departments, not just be brilliant in one and passable in the other.

India's bowling has been poor for decades now, if not longer. I can't remember the last time an India attack struck fear in the hearts of opposing lineups, unless it was Kumble and Bhajji at home (with a bit of Kartik). Surely something must change?

Some (Siddarth Monga was it?) gave a good analogy with Pakistan recently - they've got an extremely flimsy batting lineup, but due to their amazing bowling attack they have managed to win a lot more games than people though they would. India, on the flip side, managed to draw a lot more games due to the amazing batting.

Bowling wins matches, shouldn't excellence in that department be what India strives for?

Add to that horribly inept fielding. I think Pakistan is probably the team to have lost most matches because of pathetic fielding.

I remember when Pak last toured Aus. Ponting was dropped on 0 and he went on to make a double ton or something (this has happened so often to us)

India's fielding has also gone down terribly and the missed catches have cost dearly

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by Satyanash89

Agreed with this. Gambhir, Sehwag, Tendulkar, Laxman were all phenomenal in,those 4-5 years. But i think youre not giving enough credit to how magnificent Zaheer was in that period... singlehandedly carried the attack on his shoulders and was absolutely vital to many of our victories, especially overseas. Its kinda shocking how EVERYONE from the golden generation has declined so horribly so fast

Yeah, that's fair enough. It's just the random examples in my head of India's bowling clicking were the Test they won in 2010 in Sri Lanka and England's first innings at Trent Bridge, IIRC neither of which featured Zaheer.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by zorax

The question I have now is why are we okay with out bowling being ****? Simply saying 'well, it always used to be ****, and we still used to win' isn't sufficient. Top sides need to excel in both departments, not just be brilliant in one and passable in the other.

India's bowling has been poor for decades now, if not longer. I can't remember the last time an India attack struck fear in the hearts of opposing lineups, unless it was Kumble and Bhajji at home (with a bit of Kartik). Surely something must change?

Some (Siddarth Monga was it?) gave a good analogy with Pakistan recently - they've got an extremely flimsy batting lineup, but due to their amazing bowling attack they have managed to win a lot more games than people though they would. India, on the flip side, managed to draw a lot more games due to the amazing batting.

Bowling wins matches, shouldn't excellence in that department be what India strives for?

The point is that India's bowlers were pretty meh during their run to number 1. They're struggling because it's their batting that's now ****ed, their bowling isn't significantly worse than it was 2 years ago.

Plus, saying bowling wins you Tests is far too simplistic a way of looking at things.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

Add to that horribly inept fielding. I think Pakistan is probably the team to have lost most matches because of pathetic fielding.

I remember when Pak last toured Aus. Ponting was dropped on 0 and he went on to make a double ton or something (this has happened so often to us)

India's fielding has also gone down terribly and the missed catches have cost dearly

Haha I remember that drop. Was an absolute sitter.

[GingerFurball]

Amir presumably had a bet on Ponting making a double ton.

[Cabinet96]

No one was suggesting the English batsmen's performances should be discounted from their records after the first innings in Ahmedabad. It's one of those issues where you perform against an opposition, making them look **** in the process. So in reflection, it looks like you've just hammered **** opposition.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Cabinet96

No one was suggesting the English batsmen's performances should be discounted from their records after the first innings in Ahmedabad.

I think Ian Bell may have made a post or two advocating that at the time actually.