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What does Cook have to do?

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
In this context, I suppose you could argue that Cook is unlucky insofar as I don't think there's any hotter competition in theoretical terms than for the opening slots in England's All Time XI. Even excluding Grace for the time being, the other three are cricketing immortals - Jack Hobbs has a legitimate claim to be considered the second greatest Test batsman of all, while Hutton and Sutcliffe are both absolutely in the very top echelon.

What does Cook have to do to be considered for an All Time England Test XI? Well, due to who he's up against, he essentially has to be one of the top 15-20 - maybe even one of the top 10 - Test batsmen of all time.
 

nick-o

State 12th Man
In this context, I suppose you could argue that Cook is unlucky insofar as I don't think there's any hotter competition in theoretical terms than for the opening slots in England's All Time XI. Even excluding Grace for the time being, the other three are cricketing immortals - Jack Hobbs has a legitimate claim to be considered the second greatest Test batsman of all, while Hutton and Sutcliffe are both absolutely in the very top echelon.

What does Cook have to do to be considered for an All Time England Test XI? Well, due to who he's up against, he essentially has to be one of the top 15-20 - maybe even one of the top 10 - Test batsmen of all time.
It's obviously a bit premature to think in terms of all-time 11.

But I wonder whether he's making a case for what I consider a "modern era 11" - which is basically from the 70s onward, taking account of things like the transition to covered wickets, the advent of the ODI, the Packer revolution...

The opening slots in that 11 have been pretty much carved in stone as Boycott and Gooch. Is Cook beginning to challenge for a place there?
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
It's obviously a bit premature to think in terms of all-time 11.

But I wonder whether he's making a case for what I consider a "modern era 11" - which is basically from the 70s onward, taking account of things like the transition to covered wickets, the advent of the ODI, the Packer revolution...

The opening slots in that 11 have been pretty much carved in stone as Boycott and Gooch. Is Cook beginning to challenge for a place there?
He's streets ahead of where Gooch was at the same age, and, in fact where Gooch was until he was nearing 40. Without the 2nd SA rebel tour in 1989, we wouldn't even be discussing Gooch on this thread.

fwiw.
 

howardj

International Coach
he has got to hope that he faces strong attacks more often so that he can prove himself against them.

if he does really well in the 10 ashes tests against Pattingson/cummings and siddle co.. then he'll start to be rated very highly.
and johnston

seriously though, Cook would need to play another five years to play 10 Ashes tests against pattingson and cummings, such is their fragility
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
It is hard to compare across the ages especially with volume of runs and time taken to score them.

To add some perspective using ICC ratings Cook's highest ever rank was 2nd in the world at any time and his highest rating of 836 is over 100 behind Hutton and Hobbs and over 50 behind Sutcliffe and they were all the number 1 batsman in the world at some point of their career.

No doubt he will see a ratings boost in the next update but he isnt close to the All-Time England XI though he certainly could be if the 2nd half of his career continues as it has started.
 

Garson007

State Vice-Captain
In this context, I suppose you could argue that Cook is unlucky insofar as I don't think there's any hotter competition in theoretical terms than for the opening slots in England's All Time XI. Even excluding Grace for the time being, the other three are cricketing immortals - Jack Hobbs has a legitimate claim to be considered the second greatest Test batsman of all, while Hutton and Sutcliffe are both absolutely in the very top echelon.

What does Cook have to do to be considered for an All Time England Test XI? Well, due to who he's up against, he essentially has to be one of the top 15-20 - maybe even one of the top 10 - Test batsmen of all time.
An opener is arguably always going to do better in a #3 or #4 slot, so comparing him only to other openers seems a bit harsh.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
He needs to score enough runs to make people forget how ordinary Mohammed Asif and Mohammed Amir made him look - I think he'll do it, but he'll need a few more years of the form he's in now
 

Biryani Pillow

U19 Vice-Captain
For me he's in the conversation fr a place in an AT England XI.

Not in the team but in the conversation.

Certainly the best left handed opener.

He's had his dips in form but that applies to nearly all batsmen (Hammond, for example, had a couple of very quiet series).
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Just score more and have a sufficiently long career. Definitely will have to average 50+. Notably, he averages 57 away from home and 45 at home - which is not a criticism per se but a peculiarity.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
For me he's in the conversation fr a place in an AT England XI.

Not in the team but in the conversation.

Certainly the best left handed opener.

He's had his dips in form but that applies to nearly all batsmen (Hammond, for example, had a couple of very quiet series).
Interesting point that in an England all-time xi, there isn't really a left-hander in the side.

Oh, and as said by WPDavid he already pisses over Gooch.
 
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Satyanash89

Banned
Just score more and have a sufficiently long career. Definitely will have to average 50+. Notably, he averages 57 away from home and 45 at home - which is not a criticism per se but a peculiarity.
Amla and AbdV have similar records too iirc...
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
It's an incredibly tough ask. I'd say if he averaged less than 50, he wouldn't be in with much of a shot, no matter how many he scores. If he can maintain his form of the last two years, and push that average to the mid 50's, well, with the likelihood of more than 10,000 runs, he'd have to be in with a shout.
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
Hobbs, Hutton and Sutcliffe are in the top four openers of all-time for me, with Gavaskar - so really has to kick on from now, be the best batsman in the world by a decent margin for years at an end (Tendulkar 93-02, Ponting 03-07 etc.) and end up in the league of batsmanship of Tendulkar - Sobers - Hammond and the like and then he'll be in consideration.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Long story short, he has to be a better batsman, and he can't just do that by scoring more runs. People remember the level of skillfulness, or batsmanship or whatever you want to call it (it's more than aesthetics) that someone seems to be playing with rather than anything else and they've valid reason to. When Ponting or Lara were at their best they seemed impossible to get out and playing against them seemed almost unfair. It's a level of quality Cook will never have no matter how prolific he becomes.
This is true but there is a real sense of emphatic calmness about the way Cook is batting in this series. That sense that he knows exactly what he is going to with every single delivery that he gets. As you say though it is not like Lara (or Clarke recently), where it appears they can just do whatever they want.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
No matter what he does he can never surpass Hobbs, period. As far as Hutton is concered his greatness lies not only in what he did but who he did it againts and what he had to over come to do it. Hutton scored hundreds againts O'Reilly, Lindwall and Miller and Ramadin and Valentine. Hutton also had to contend with his war injury that restricted him after the war. Sutcliffe, he may have a chance there if not he contines to score but who he scores agints. Because of a genaral lack of top tier quality bolwers of the era, he will have to do it againts S.A. to be seen in the top tier.

Remember to be a contender for the England AT team at opener who have one foot in the door for the World AT XI and Cook is no where close to that as yet.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
yup this could be break or break for him. Even in his golden run of form for last two years his record against the only two sides that had good bowling attacks has been mediocre.
Assuming those blokes are fit, which is a big call, guys like pattinson and Cummins have never bowled in England. I don't know that they're the test for Cool that they might be in 2-3 years when they've played more test cricket.
 

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