Ponting on Lara and Tendulkar

[Black_Warrior]

Ok ignoring the trolls for a minute..I was discussing Ponting's words on Lara and Tendulkar recently..Ponting is not the first cricketer to say this..lot of cricketers tend to say this..not just about this particular debate but they tend to mention this bit "singlehandedly won games"

I wonder what they mean by that? because I don't think anyone can singlehandedly win test matches...now lot of people tend to point to the 99 series against Australia when they talk about Lara as a matchwinner..without taking anything away from those brilliant performances..but if people consider that 'singlehanded' then Curtly Ambrose and Courtney Walsh should be very very upset.

[Top_Cat]

No-one ever means that literally.

[Black_Warrior]

Fair enough but then the argument doesn't really stand because Tendulkar has featured in a lot of wins for India too..wins in which he had a significant contribution...and he has a lot of centuries which did not result in wins because he did not have Walsh and Ambrose....

[Ikki]

Always got the impression that Lara was not only trying to win the match in question but was trying to send a message for the rest of the series. Tendulkar didn't communicate that same attitude. It just seemed textbook and straight-laced.

[Black_Warrior]

Right.. Agree with that which takes me to my next point..Compared to Lara, Tendulkar is far more rational, sensible, technically correct, does the right, does not take unnecessary risks, and seems to do what the experts and coaching books would ask you to do..which explains his sheer volume of runs which dwarfs Lara's runs by a large margin... However, is this what makes Lara special? is this what make people say he wins matches singlehandedly? is this what makes everyone say Tendulkar is the better player but I would pay to watch Lara bat? That he would not be all copybook and technical and rational..he would break the rules..he would play in a way which might be considered not sensible in that context..but he would...sometimes it would not work..but on the occasions it would work, he would come up with something truly and incredibly special like the 99 series...

[Jono]

You will find conflicting opinions on both from various players. McGrath has described Tendulkar as the most mentally tough player he's played against, however he never felt like he'd take the game away from him to a huge degree, and he could generally control him to a certain extent. He found Lara mentally weak, but once Lara was in and playing well, he was harder to control.

Murali just flat out found Lara more difficult to bowl to and believes he was the better batsman against him.

Warne I think favours Sachin but correct me if I'm wrong.

The reason they are compared so often is because they are both so great and so different bowlers found one better than the other. They are so similar in greatness, but also so different in how they achieved that greatness.

I am again reminded of Top Cat's comparison of the two. Greatest metaphor ever. Something about Lara pissing on a canvas or something

[centurymaker]

Originally Posted by Jono

I am again reminded of Top Cat's comparison of the two. Greatest metaphor ever. Something about Lara pissing on a canvas or something

elaborate plz?

[Jono]

A search of "Top_Cat" and "canvas" finds me the post instantly

****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

Post was made in 2006 ftr, Lara was still going.

****ing hell Sachin has been around for so long.

[Black_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Jono

You will find conflicting opinions on both from various players. McGrath has described Tendulkar as the most mentally tough player he's played against, however he never felt like he'd take the game away from him to a huge degree, and he could generally control him to a certain extent. He found Lara mentally weak, but once Lara was in and playing well, he was harder to control.

Yeah I read that post of yours when you met McGrath..Look there is no doubt about Tendulkar's mental strength...guy is perhaps the strongest player mentally I have seen..
Tendulkar is the personification of the most complete player - loads of talent, hard work, determination, mental strength, add more hard work, strong ambition and desire for success, add more hard work and you have Tendulkar..This is why in terms of achievement, he is far ahead of the others..Inzamam I felt had tremendous talent, and it always bothered me that he never achieved as much as Lara and Tendulkar..before I used to think it was because it was because he never worked hard enough and was lazy..but over the years, from what I have read the others say about him, he did work very hard on his batting..took it very seriously...that's when I concluded that what he lacked was not the drive for hard work but the mental strength.. He was just not mentally as strong as Tendulkar, Waugh, Ponting or even Lara..

But going back to Tendulkar and Lara...as I said earlier..he is not mentally as strong..he will do things which might seem stupid and senseless as times..and sometimes that will get him out..I remember once in an England-WI series..against Flintoff, he was going across, exposing his leg stump and trying to hit him over short fine leg in a ODI match..I couldn't for the life of me understand why..he managed one boundary, and got out next.. And I said Tendulkar would never do that..
But then I also remember this little known innings of his in 2005 against Pakistan.. He came in after a couple of early wickets on the first day in the first innings... I think it might have been 40/3 and as soon as Kaneria came on to bowl, Lara came down the wicket..and for the first few overs, while he managed a few boundaries, he looked very vulnerable..he was getting edges, he shuffling around, hopping around and I was anticipating a wicket every ball..you could see the hands going up..but you know what..soon he was 40 in no time..and looked well set...and before you knew it..he had smashed his way to 130 and from 40/3 on the first day, West Indies won that match...

He completely destroyed the pressure that was built by taking those early wickets..All the coaching books will at that time prescribe sensible and defensive batting, when the ball is new, 3 early wickets..hand in there, get your eye in, let the bowlers tire out, or finish this current spell..then hit the bad balls.. Lara ripped apart all the coaching books and did what he did..now the margin of error is very low here..he might have gotten out..one of those edges might have gone straight to a fielder..but he took a gamble and it worked..

I guess perhaps in sports..sometimes you shouldn't be so technical and rational? sometimes a risk here, a gamble there..maybe it won't work..but when it works, you leave your opposition with no chance.

I guess that was his approach against Murali too in 2001..all the experts would advise no need to go after him..this is his home ground, he is on top, play him carefully, go for the bad balls by other bowlers..and look what Lara did.. he particularly picked Murali..

Its not that Tendulkar lacks the ability to play like that..He did play like that in those two ODIs in Sharjah in 98...and he did attack Warne in the 98 test series too..but those are very rare..more often than not, Tendulkar plays safe, plays reasonably..and as a result, gets more hundreds and runs.

Sorry didn't mean for this to be such an essay.

Originally Posted by Jono

A simple search of "Top_Cat" and "canvas" finds me the post instantly:

****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

Post was made in 2006 ftr, Lara was still going.

****ing hell Sachin has been around for so long.

Wow just read it..great post indeed..totally makes up for the 20,000 rubbish posts he has made here..

[benchmark00]

Originally Posted by Jono

A search of "Top_Cat" and "canvas" finds me the post instantly

****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

Post was made in 2006 ftr, Lara was still going.

****ing hell Sachin has been around for so long.

Lost me as soon as he said:

this from an unabashed Tendulkar fan.

****ing Tendulkar fan boy.

[Jono]

Could have sworn you were going to say "lost me as soon as it said Top_Cat"

[benchmark00]

Originally Posted by Jono

Could have sworn you were going to say "lost me as soon as it said Top_Cat"

Y'all don't know me!

[LongHopCassidy]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

No-one ever means that literally.

BS, his bottom hand didn't touch his bat handle once.

[Tangles]

Just watched the 153 link provided earlier. Man that guy was fun to watch.

[vic_orthdox]

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