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Thread: Ross Taylor likely to be shafted from the captaincy?

  1. #751
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Deliberately bumping this before there is a final result of the test - just so it isn't super hindsight.

    Has anyone changed their view? If not against Hesson, but with McCullum? Or still hating him? Or still undecided?

    I've spoken to a couple of Kiwis who still staunchly say Ross Taylor was royally screwed, but see the silver lining (I watched Silver Linings Playbook last night tbf) is that McCullum as captain could be a good result even if the method getting there was awful. Reckon it will (and apparently has) made him a better batsman, and he may a better leader than Ross.

    Hard to say, but curious what the Kiwi fans on here think. I always felt Ross wasn't an inspiring leader but at the same time it was hard to argue with the fact he won a test in Australia and in Sri Lanka.

    Tricky one.
    I've always been a bit 50/50 on who I thought would be the better captain of the two and I believe I said so in this thread. What was despicable was the way they went about making the change, the timing of it (right after winning a Test in Sri Lanka) and, I guess more than anything else, the subsequent lies and attempted back-peddling. None of that has changed, and I still don't think any of us will ever really know how much or how little McCullum had to do with that situation behind the scenes.

    I don't think many people in here were actually totally convinced that Taylor was the best man for the job as captain; it's just that replacing him at that moment was absolutely absurd. The obviously exception to this is of course Phlegm who thinks Taylor is a better captain because he's a better batsman.
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  2. #752
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    McCullum has been a good captain, tbh. Still dislike Hesson and the handling, but McCullum will probably turn out to be a better captain than Taylor was at this stage.
    So you are of the exact same view that my NZ mates then.


    Wait a minute... are you one of my NZ mates? One of them is a Tigers fan also.











  3. #753
    State Vice-Captain BackFootPunch's Avatar
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    My major gripe was always the way the situation was handled, never the actual end result. McCullum is a good captain and so far has performed better with the extra responsibility. It seems Taylor has moved on, though we are yet to see him really back to his best.

    So, yeah basically Hesson was a bit of a **** but it's probably going to come off for him and for NZ cricket in general. As much as we felt for Taylor at the time, we'll forget it all if our results continue their upward trend.

  4. #754
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Just watching the body language of Taylor in the field, I think he prefers just being a batsman tbh. McCullum's tactically a better captain imo anyway. He's not going to make the right decisions all the time. In fact I'm sure he'll make a few shockers, but he's the right guy to lead this team. Hesson is still a ****. I never had a problem with Baz though.


  5. #755
    State 12th Man Jezroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5181 View Post
    Just watching the body language of Taylor in the field, I think he prefers just being a batsman tbh. McCullum's tactically a better captain imo anyway. He's not going to make the right decisions all the time. In fact I'm sure he'll make a few shockers, but he's the right guy to lead this team. Hesson is still a ****. I never had a problem with Baz though.
    It was handled very badly - but I can't see when would have been a better time to do it.

    There was such a small gap between all tours once Hesson took over. I can understand why he didn't just want to walk in on day one, and say "I want Brendon as the captain, thanks".

    But then after that, it was tour after tour after tour.

    Still, should have sat in a room with Ross and the right people at a BETTER time, and told him what was going on. And made sure he didn't feel like crap about it.

    But McCullum does seem to be a much better/proactive captain, and it seems to have done good things for his batting.

  6. #756
    Cricketer Of The Year hendrix's Avatar
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    It was the handling of the media that was worse.

    Just be honest and we won't care that much. The situation was that it was clear that Hesson was lying.

  7. #757
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    I liken NZ's cricket side over the last couple of years to an old engine in the shed that every so often sputters into life, then coughs and dies, and at times threatens to just work. Last few years we've found some good players to make up the numbers in our side, a few key players have gradually improved, our young bowlers have gained experience and started to prove themselves, though there've been a few backward steps too.

    Whether we win this match against England or not, I think it's quite likely NZ are at the beginning of a period in test cricket where we are more competitive and more consistent. If so, history will no doubt be written as if McCullum's captaincy was the deciding factor and that will serve as a post-hoc justification for stabbing Taylor in the back. However the improvement process started under Taylor and we can't know how we'd be going now if he was still captain, or indeed how we might have gone in the months prior to his sacking if he'd had support from coach and management. McCullum's leadership may be an important part of our improvement, or it may just be that he took over at just the time when we were on the verge of being competitive anyway.

    I do like McCullum's field placings and it's possible he's providing leadership to some of our players in a way Taylor wasn't before, though we can't know for sure. It helps that McCullum is batting well and a lot of the punts he or the team has made so far have come off (who would have guessed Peter Fulton?). I'll be interested to see how team culture (or what little we get to know about it) develops over the next 12-18 months - some question marks still for me.

  8. #758
    International Debutant Viscount Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFootPunch View Post
    My major gripe was always the way the situation was handled, never the actual end result. McCullum is a good captain and so far has performed better with the extra responsibility. It seems Taylor has moved on, though we are yet to see him really back to his best.

    So, yeah basically Hesson was a bit of a **** but it's probably going to come off for him and for NZ cricket in general. As much as we felt for Taylor at the time, we'll forget it all if our results continue their upward trend.
    AWTA the situation was handled with all the diplomacy and tact of the Gestapo but the end result is working.

    Although what I will say for Taylor is that this team is better than it was this time last year.
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  9. #759
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    I think McCullum has been a good captain and his batting has improved under his captaincy. Whether it was due to the extra responsibility, moving into the middle order, or a combination of both I can't say.

    I think and always thought Hesson was tactically sound.

    However the handling of the change was ridiculous, Hesson is a liar and even if we improve in the short term it does not paper over the cracks of NZC, who are a completely incompetent organisation who only achieve success by accident and regularly set back cricket in this country due to their actions. They have long history of this.

    Until the issues within the organisation are solved there will always be the very real threat of NZC ruining everything other people accomplish with their hard work.

    The results do not justify the method and while this series has been a pleasant surprise we're coming off a series in South Africa where the chickens came home to roost. 49 all out should by no means be forgotten.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I don't think many people in here were actually totally convinced that Taylor was the best man for the job as captain; it's just that replacing him at that moment was absolutely absurd. The obviously exception to this is of course Phlegm who thinks Taylor is a better captain because he's a better batsman.
    That isn't the entirety of what I said at all. Taylor had just won a test in Sri Lanka, so changing captains shouldn't have even been on the agenda. But say you wanted more evidence for why it was a move that defied all logic, Taylor at the time was batting like a hero. In contrast, McCullum during that period barely deserved his spot in the side so making someone averaging a tick under 30 the captain was ludicrous.
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  10. #760
    International Coach KiWiNiNjA's Avatar
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    McCullum the better captain.

    But the still handled it like a bunch of ****s.

  11. #761
    International Debutant ohnoitsyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    The obviously exception to this is of course Phlegm who thinks Taylor is a better captain because he's from CD.
    fixed
    Last edited by ohnoitsyou; 25-03-2013 at 12:31 AM.

  12. #762
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    It was the handling of the media that was worse.

    Just be honest and we won't care that much. The situation was that it was clear that Hesson was lying.
    This
    Quote Originally Posted by KiWiNiNjA View Post
    McCullum the better captain.

    But the still handled it like a bunch of ****s.
    & This

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohnoitsyou View Post
    fixed
    I see no problem with that logic.

  14. #764
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    Why are we suddenly saying Brendon is better I hope it is just not because of this test. Ross won two away test matches and I am convinced we would be in the same position in this match with him as skip provided that Brendon had gone down the order to 6 under his captaincy as well.

    Both are fine as captains and I remember controversially saying at the time that most of the batsman in the NZ team would do a good job as captain. Brendon's "success" in this series is due to personnel changes specifically getting two openers who have performed (Ruthers more at the beginning of the series) and someone other than jeetan patel being the spinner.

    Where Brendon deservers a ton of credit is in the one day arena where we have gone from sucking to being decent again.
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  15. #765
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    Although he handled the Taylor situation poorly, it did show that Hesson is prepared to make the tough decisions. He also is responsible for giving Fulton another chance when everyone thought he had lost the plot, and also McCullum is batting where he should be and now we have a much better balance to our batting lineup.

    He may be hated by most due to the way he handled the Taylor situation, but he's also done a lot of good things for the side and I wasn't a fan of his after the way he treated Ross Taylor so credit where it's due.

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