Ross Taylor likely to be shafted from the captaincy?

[Jezroy]

And the poo keeps on coming back.

Sounds like you need to get rid of the stuff that is making the poo.

That's fair. As long as the poo you are getting rid of is unhealthy.

There is some poo that is perfectly normal to have on a regular basis.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

That's fair. As long as the poo you are getting rid of is unhealthy.

There is some poo that is perfectly normal to have on a regular basis.

Yeah but if a person poos on his fellow employees then they generally get fired

 

[Jezroy]

Yeah but if a person poos on his fellow employees then they generally get fired

Pretty sure Hesson wants a Boston Steamer from McCullum TBF.

 

[Kippax]

Hah, the old 'McCullum's faking it, he's using the gloves as leverage' chestnut is implied in the report.

Not keen on this "eternally injured" business and other laughably loose and informal choices of language. Get the feeling Parker could've got a more sober and credible collation of the facts if he'd let Phlegm in on all the goss and asked him to pretend he's writing a post.

 

[jcas0167]

Millmow: Time for Parker to pull stumps on NZC campaign

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

If Millmow said it, the opposite is likely the ideal course of action.

 

[Neil Young]

Yeah, but we already know that a lot of really **** stuff happened. We know that Hesson axed Taylor under unreasonable circumstances. We know that he, and the NZC lied about the offer of the split captaincy. We already knew that there were major divisions within the side (even if we didn't have names). We already knew that people within the NZ team unit had concerns about a culture of mediocrity amongst some players. This **** being perpetually dredged up every month isn't adding anything new.

But no-one has been held accountable for any of this farce. That's the major issue for me.

 

[Bahnz]

But no-one has been held accountable for any of this farce. That's the major issue for me.

The national body's constitution is being rewritten and the board will be up for election later this year, so there is some accountability for the Taylor ****-up. Of course if your actually looking for Hesson's head on a block then you're **** out of luck. Yes he handled the captaincy switch appaullingly, but he's since delivered an ODI series win in SA and a test series draw with England. He'll be there for a while.

Further, I don't see how a bunch of seemingly baseless accusations about how much BMac and co. like to get on the piss, and how they bully anyone who tries to work hard is really going to hold NZ Cricket to account for the Taylor situation.

 

[Neil Young]

The national body's constitution is being rewritten and the board will be up for election later this year, so there is some accountability for the Taylor ****-up. Of course if your actually looking for Hesson's head on a block then you're **** out of luck. Yes he handled the captaincy switch appaullingly, but he's since delivered an ODI series win in SA and a test series draw with England. He'll be there for a while.

Yep, while I think Hesson is a conniving, lying, two-faced ****, ultimately what will decide his fate now will happen on the park. So, while he's producing results, his job is safe. Doesn't mean this farce shouldn't be investigated to purge any lingering bad taste, mind. Of which there is clearly some.

As someone said somewhere, you can sweep something under the carpet but it'll grow and grow and eventually trip you up.

 

[Neil Young]

Ian Smith joins the fray.

 

[BeeGee]

Ian Smith joins the fray.

I like the part that says Smith adds weight to the faction opposing the current NZC regime.

He sure does.

 

[Hurricane]

The national body's constitution is being rewritten and the board will be up for election later this year,

I would like to a source that verifies this, I have seen loose quotes about it but then when the article has elaborated it has looked like the board is adding a couple of positions this year and that is all.

 

[banquetbear]

The national body's constitution is being rewritten and the board will be up for election later this year, so there is some accountability for the Taylor ****-up. Of course if your actually looking for Hesson's head on a block then you're **** out of luck. Yes he handled the captaincy switch appaullingly, but he's since delivered an ODI series win in SA and a test series draw with England. He'll be there for a while.

Further, I don't see how a bunch of seemingly baseless accusations about how much BMac and co. like to get on the piss, and how they bully anyone who tries to work hard is really going to hold NZ Cricket to account for the Taylor situation.

...the constitution and the re-election were going to happen anyway: they had nothing to do with what happened to Taylor. While getting rid of the board will be a good thing for NZ Cricket: those most responsible for this debacle: White and Hesson, aren't going to be touched.

And the accusations aren't "baseless." While I wish that the people who made them would "come on the record", we have heard these stories before, reported by other people who have verified sources within the team.

This has gone on too long and we are tired of this crap. The line has to be drawn somewhere. From the sacking of Andy Moles to the "is Greatbatch the coach?" to John Wright walking away it is absolutely crystal clear there is something majorly dis-functional with the way NZ Cricket is being run and the Taylor affair is simply the one where we have to say enough is enough. So McCullum won a one-day series? Whoop de do. Taylor won three test matches in his short run: and each of those wins were fighing, down to the wire wins that could have gone either way.

No-one was questioning Taylor's decisions while he was captain until after he was sacked: then all of a sudden the attacks came out of the woodwork. Lets not forget how vicious some of those attacks were, like the accusation from Richard Boock that Taylor was abusive, swearing and cussing out players in the dressing room. That accusation was sourced directly from a player in the team: a player that is probably still playing right now. Taylor wasn't just fired: his character was bought into disrepute by the very people he has to play with now. And right now he's playing in a team where the coach still won't talk to him.

This needs to be dealt with and allowing NZ Cricket to keep pretending that everything is fine because "McCullum has done so well" is a mistake. We can't let the bullies win.

 

[Flem274*]

...the constitution and the re-election were going to happen anyway: they had nothing to do with what happened to Taylor. While getting rid of the board will be a good thing for NZ Cricket: those most responsible for this debacle: White and Hesson, aren't going to be touched.

And the accusations aren't "baseless." While I wish that the people who made them would "come on the record", we have heard these stories before, reported by other people who have verified sources within the team.

This has gone on too long and we are tired of this crap. The line has to be drawn somewhere. From the sacking of Andy Moles to the "is Greatbatch the coach?" to John Wright walking away it is absolutely crystal clear there is something majorly dis-functional with the way NZ Cricket is being run and the Taylor affair is simply the one where we have to say enough is enough. So McCullum won a one-day series? Whoop de do. Taylor won three test matches in his short run: and each of those wins were fighing, down to the wire wins that could have gone either way.

No-one was questioning Taylor's decisions while he was captain until after he was sacked: then all of a sudden the attacks came out of the woodwork. Lets not forget how vicious some of those attacks were, like the accusation from Richard Boock that Taylor was abusive, swearing and cussing out players in the dressing room. That accusation was sourced directly from a player in the team: a player that is probably still playing right now. Taylor wasn't just fired: his character was bought into disrepute by the very people he has to play with now. And right now he's playing in a team where the coach still won't talk to him.

This needs to be dealt with and allowing NZ Cricket to keep pretending that everything is fine because "McCullum has done so well" is a mistake. We can't let the bullies win.

AWTA.

We might be going well on the field now, but having an incompetent cricket board behind you means it is all going to go horribly wrong again in the future.

Kind of like how we smashed Sri Lanka in a test on the back of them smashing us and then some **** decided that was the perfect moment for a captaincy change.

Every player NZ has produced and every success we have had has come in spite of, not because of, NZC. The most recent one that springs to mind is shutting down the academy allowed our young bowlers to develop without NZC touching them.

Before all this poop hit the fan I said Hesson actually has a lot of merit as a coach if the good qualities about him I had heard were true. I still believe this is the case. He strikes me as a meticulous and deep thinker about the game when it comes to game plans, but he also has some very poor areas and he needs a strong manager to pair with him to rein in his jobs for the boys mentality and call him out when he tells a lie to cover his backside.

 

[Hurricane]

he needs a strong manager to pair with him to rein in his jobs for the boys mentality and call him out when he tells a lie to cover his backside.

you just can't have leaders that lack integrity full stop. anyway I don't want to get worked up over this - it is out of our control.

 

[banquetbear]

...for me the rot runs deep. Here is one of Fleming's companies:

Business Portal | Business.govt.nz

McCullum has a ten percent share, but for me that is unimportant. The important name is Neil Maxwell: who I am assuming is the same Neil Maxwell who is in charge of the US 20/20 league that is already delayed a year and that I'm predicting is going to be a disaster. What I'm saying is that there is a whole other agenda in play here: one that has been unfurling in the background over the last few years. NZ Cricket has been hijacked. This captains report is just the first step to take the game back. There are going to be casualties. But whether or not McCullum or Taylor is captain or whether or not Hesson stays as the coach or not are largely unimportant. There is a much much bigger issue at play here and the future of the game is at stake.

 

[Flem274*]

you just can't have leaders that lack integrity full stop. anyway I don't want to get worked up over this - it is out of our control.

my tongue was firmly in cheek

 

[Bahnz]

...the constitution and the re-election were going to happen anyway: they had nothing to do with what happened to Taylor. While getting rid of the board will be a good thing for NZ Cricket: those most responsible for this debacle: White and Hesson, aren't going to be touched.

This has gone on too long and we are tired of this crap. The line has to be drawn somewhere. From the sacking of Andy Moles to the "is Greatbatch the coach?" to John Wright walking away it is absolutely crystal clear there is something majorly dis-functional with the way NZ Cricket is being run and the Taylor affair is simply the one where we have to say enough is enough. So McCullum won a one-day series? Whoop de do. Taylor won three test matches in his short run: and each of those wins were fighing, down to the wire wins that could have gone either way.

So you're response to New Zealand's inability to hang on to a coach for more than 12 months, is to sack the latest coach after 6 months? I agree in general Hesson and White won't be touched by this, and that that's not a good thing, but I continue to fail to see how gossip about how everyone in the team hates each other is going to help with this.

Also, please don't rate New Zealand's victory over Zimbabwe as an accomplishment. It was frankly embarassing that Zimbabwe got as close to us in that match as they did. Yes Taylor won two test matches away from home. He also lost 5 in a row (would've been 7 if it hadn't been for rain at the Basin in the 3rd test vs SA). I'm not saying New Zealand's dreadful performances during his reign were his fault, because they weren't. But let's not pretend like his run as captain was an astounding success, brought low by the Machiavellian schemes of the people who cared for nothing else besides seeing McCullum as captain.

And the accusations aren't "baseless." While I wish that the people who made them would "come on the record", we have heard these stories before, reported by other people who have verified sources within the team.

No-one was questioning Taylor's decisions while he was captain until after he was sacked: then all of a sudden the attacks came out of the woodwork. Lets not forget how vicious some of those attacks were, like the accusation from Richard Boock that Taylor was abusive, swearing and cussing out players in the dressing room. That accusation was sourced directly from a player in the team: a player that is probably still playing right now. Taylor wasn't just fired: his character was bought into disrepute by the very people he has to play with now. And right now he's playing in a team where the coach still won't talk to him.

I would say those accusations are no more viscious than the current ones that effectively call McCullum a drunk and a bully, who only wants to play in the team when it's on his own terms. And I would say that people certainly were questioning Taylor's captaincy prior to his axing, at least on these forums.

Look, it's not like I'm happy with the way Taylor was treated, or with the way the NZC has run cricket in recent years. My problem is that this report doesn't really seem to have much to do with criticising NZ cricket or the people who run it, as it does with criticising individuals within the New Zealand team: McCullum, Hesson, Vettori etc. It's divisive bull**** that will serve no purpose other than to drive the players apart from one another at a time when they should really be trying to come together.

 

[Flem274*]

I could live with the status quo in the side if NZC get an overhaul and it is made very clear to the players and management they are on their final warning. Anymore shenanigans and you're gone.

 

[banquetbear]

So you're response to New Zealand's inability to hang on to a coach for more than 12 months, is to sack the latest coach after 6 months?

...did I say sack the coach? No I didn't.

I agree in general Hesson and White won't be touched by this, and that that's not a good thing, but I continue to fail to see how gossip about how everyone in the team hates each other is going to help with this.

This isn't about "who hates who." Its about a completely disfunctional organization that keeps making disfunctional decisions. I'm not sure why you are happy for them to continue.

Also, please don't rate New Zealand's victory over Zimbabwe as an accomplishment. It was frankly embarassing that Zimbabwe got as close to us in that match as they did.

It was an accomplishment. We nearly lost it. Zimbabwe played well. I'm not of the mindset that the test teams are all that far apart. NZ got destroyed by South Africa this season and a few weeks later we are matching it with England. When we beat Zimbabwe NZ Cricket was in an extremely bad state and it was a victory the team needed.

Yes Taylor won two test matches away from home.

Actually he won three.

He also lost 5 in a row (would've been 7 if it hadn't been for rain at the Basin in the 3rd test vs SA). I'm not saying New Zealand's dreadful performances during his reign were his fault, because they weren't. But let's not pretend like his run as captain was an astounding success, brought low by the Machiavellian schemes of the people who cared for nothing else besides seeing McCullum as captain.

And lets not pretend that McCullum is "the second coming" like is being portrayed at the moment because he won a one day series and drew a test series.

I would say those accusations are no more viscious than the current ones that effectively call McCullum a drunk and a bully, who only wants to play in the team when it's on his own terms.

Cite?

And I would say that people certainly were questioning Taylor's captaincy prior to his axing, at least on these forums.

Cite?

Look, it's not like I'm happy with the way Taylor was treated, or with the way the NZC has run cricket in recent years. My problem is that this report doesn't really seem to have much to do with criticising NZ cricket or the people who run it, as it does with criticising individuals within the New Zealand team: McCullum, Hesson, Vettori etc. It's divisive bull**** that will serve no purpose other than to drive the players apart from one another at a time when they should really be trying to come together.

The report isn't the cause of the divisive bull***. New Zealand Cricket's decision to cover this incident up, close up shop and not answer questions is the cause of this divisive bull***. You are blaming the wrong person. There is some serious empire building going on right now and it will end up with NZ Cricket going bankrupt unless a stop is put to it.

I'll say it again. The report is not the problem. Just last week NZ Cricket blacklisted Radio Sport because they refused to be muzzled in the questions they asked Bob Carter. NZ Cricket is the problem, not those who are asking the questions.