England Academy - NZ A - Australia A - India A - And everyone else's second tiers...

[steds]

Feel free to bring this up in 2006 and make me look an idiot

Ok

ACADEMY SQUAD

Kadeer Ali (Worcs)
Top order batsman, Kabir's cousin. Has promise and has scored plenty of runs at age group level... but not senior level yet.
Gut feeling: sinking without trace

Spot on.

Simon Francis (Somst)
Pace bowler and injury prone (like we needed another one) - ex-Hants. Not seen too much.
Journeyman County Pro

5 wickets @ 104 last season.

Alex Gidman (Gloucs)
Hasn't set the World alight but was absolutely fantastic in the Twenty20 final. Useful medium pace.
100+ ODIs and more than a few Tests

Where are these ODIs and tests, then?

Simon Jones (Glam)
We know him. Can he come back from injury properly?
Heart says loads of wickets, head says retired at 28

Probably both, the way he's going.

Shaftab Khalid (Worcs)
Allegedly has a doosra. Will be hoping for Batty to clear off to England and get some CC starts. Could be special.
Fringe of England.. a few Asian tours

Not a chance

Michael Lumb (Yorks)
Another in the line of Yorkie batsmen who the selectors think have got that X factor.
Following Vaughan's footsteps

He's got the distinctly county average, now all he needs is the call up.

Sajjid Mahmood (Lancs)
Seamer. That's all I know.
Really don't know...

Lancashire's holding him back. We still don't know properly.

Graham Napier (Essex)
In the Mark Ealham mould, seamer who can stick around and grit out scores that he probably shouldn't.
ODI man

Scott Newman (Surrey)
Big double ton for the Seconds, will be opening for Surrey this year post-Ward
Will follow Ward into England.. and out again

I doubt it.

Kevin Pietersen (Notts)
Tons of potential - but has the nationalisation Hicked him?
Several England chances... but no real success

Best one of the lot. No real success

+Matt Prior (Sussex)
Likely to be in Read's shadow until the Notts man drops the baton
ODI stand in? Will struggle to displace Read

Displaced Read already...as #2.

Bilal Shafayat (Notts)
Hasn't stepped up to County level from U19s. Temperament remains a question - likely to remain an enigma
Either the New Botham, or a complete failure

The latter.

James Tredwell (Kent)
Useful offspinner and utility batsman. Safe in the field
ODIs abound and an Asian tour or three

Behind Panesar now.

Graeme Wagg (Warks)
Allrounder yet to show real form at senior level
Road to obscurity

How did you know? Spotted the trail of white powder?

 

[Arjun]

There's little or no news regarding the Indian reserve team, but as a fan, I'm irritated by the selection of rejects from the past in this team. The selectors should use this team to groom and develop future national players. But most Indian reserve selections only seem to keep these rejects happy or just try to play safe– not that it works. Every selection has at least three such picks. For example—

SS Das– If you remember this short film called "Who killed the sale?", you can use one quote from there– "This machine operates at just two speeds– dead slow and stop". Extreme as it may sound, it can remind one of SS Das batting in a Test match. His strike rate was reason enough to keep him out of limited-overs matches, even playing for India-A. He's not an India prospect now, and picking him ahead of the likes of Dhawan and Uthappa won't do the reserves any good, and in the long run, won't do the Indian team any good.

Sairaj Bahutule– The selectors don't want him. He's been tried countless times at India-A level. The selectors still don't want him. Young Piyush Chawla is making waves at the Under-19 and domestic levels. Maybe it's time the selectors moved on from sticking to the Mumbai stalwart. He's a temperamental leg-spinner who can't adjust to quick-scoring events and even though he can also bat, we expect all-rounders to score quickly, not like Dravid of old.

Harvinder Singh– Size does matter, when it comes to fast bowling. Reason enough to keep him out.

VVS Laxman, Zaheer Khan, Ajit Agarkar– They may have done the Indian team a lot of good when they played, but getting them back to India-A is a step backwards. IT's India or back to the domestic scene.

Amit Bhandari– He's done rather well for India-A, but now the selectors have to make the call– should he play for India? Maybe, but is reserve days are now over– or they should be.

Hemang Badani– Seems a lot more productive, but may be more of a Test prospect. He too has got more than a few opportunities at this level.

That said, here are some who should make the side—

Uthappa and Dhawan– They're young, and have been scoring in big chunks, and quickly too. Definitely a pair for the future at the top of the batting order, they have to play together in every match.

Joginder Sharma– A more-than-useful outswing bowler, he's a frontliner for his team, and not just with the ball. He's also a leading run-scorer and bats a lot like Kaif, but for an all-rounder, you need more power. Very effective on the field.

Piyush Chawla– Watch this space.

Pravin Kumar– He's an unsung hero in his team's triumph in the Ranji Trophy. He's been a leading wicket-taker, bowling first-change and new-ball, and has taken several top-order wickets. He's tall, muscular and can hit more than a few big ones, and has three scores over 50 to his credit this season, and is also a leading run-scorer for his team.

Abid Nabi– He may be ignored because of the team for which he plays and the oppposition they face, but there's a lot more to this young bowler. Classified as "Right-arm-medium" on a famous cricket website, he's said to be a lot faster than that. When groomed properly, he can be a frontrunner for the Indian team.

Amit Mishra– A prospect four years ago, he's been around long enough to be considered for a national call-up. He's said to be a big turner of the ball– maybe not a Shane Warne, but definitely a lot more than Kumble, and will last more overs than Tendulkar.

 

[adharcric]

Totally agree. I'm sick and tired of seeing guys like Bahutule, Mongia and Bhandari being given opportunities when we all know that they'll never be selected for the national team again. If we had an India A, this is what I'd want:

India A
Shikhar Dhawan, Robin Uthappa, Sridharan Sriram OR Dinesh Mongia (experience ..), Venugopal Rao, Hemang Badani, Niraj Patel OR Sunny Singh, most-developed-u19-star (Pujara OR Dhiman OR Sharma), Dinesh Karthik, Vikram Singh, Gagandeep Singh, Abid Nabi, Shib Paul, Joginder Sharma, Piyush Chawla, Amit Mishra

India
V Sehwag, S Tendulkar, R Dravid, Y Singh, M Kaif, S Raina, G Gambhir, MS Dhoni, I Pathan, M Patel, S Sreesanth, RP Singh, A Agarkar**, H Singh, R Powar

* Don't kill me for that one, Arjun. He won't last long but he's done well enough and has a solid average over the past few series, so realistically he'll stay for a bit. Plus, need some experience (at least the selectors can use that one).

 

[chris.hinton]

I have got it wrong too.... I thought that Kadeer Ali would play for England Now ( he might still)

I prediction i will make is that Anderson will have better Career Average then Plunkett

 

[steds]

I have got it wrong too.... I thought that Kadeer Ali would play for England Now ( he might still)

 

[Arjun]

Totally agree. I'm sick and tired of seeing guys like Bahutule, Mongia and Bhandari being given opportunities when we all know that they'll never be selected for the national team again. If we had an India A, this is what I'd want:

India A
Shikhar Dhawan, Robin Uthappa, Sridharan Sriram OR Dinesh Mongia (experience ..), Venugopal Rao, Hemang Badani, Niraj Patel OR Sunny Singh, most-developed-u19-star (Pujara OR Dhiman OR Sharma), Dinesh Karthik, Vikram Singh, Gagandeep Singh, Abid Nabi, Shib Paul, Joginder Sharma, Piyush Chawla, Amit Mishra

India
V Sehwag, S Tendulkar, R Dravid, Y Singh, M Kaif, S Raina, G Gambhir, MS Dhoni, I Pathan, M Patel, S Sreesanth, RP Singh, A Agarkar**, H Singh, R Powar

* Don't kill me for that one, Arjun. He won't last long but he's done well enough and has a solid average over the past few series, so realistically he'll stay for a bit. Plus, need some experience (at least the selectors can use that one).

I agree with most of your selections, but some aspects got my attention

• Dinesh Mongia/Sriram– Both have been given a few chances at India-A, and even for India, and have been found wanting. If anyone, they can pick Amol Mazumdar or Wasim Jaffer, who have had fewer chances.
• Vikram Singh– He should make the senior side. His aggression is unmatched among all seamers in the Indian team, and that may be reason enough for a place in the senior side, ahead of Agarkar, whose experience counts for nothing, given the lack of tournament victories for so long. As for his average in ODI's– he's just plain lucky.
• Munaf Patel– He's more than just one of the fastest bowlers in the country. He's also a more-than-useful batsman with a style similar to Justin Kemp. He should get more involved in the batting, not to replace the Dravids, Tendulkars or even one Irfan Pathan, but just add to them. That said, one Pravin Kumar from Uttar Pradesh, who played a major role in their victory in the Ranji Trophy, should make the Indian side sooner than later– he had a better batting and bowling record than Munaf, and he's more powerful than Joginder Sharma, Parthiv Patel and Dinesh Karthik.
• Chawla AND Mishra– You've picked two leggies, and that's an interesting selection. Let's see how it works.

 

[Blaze]

NZ in 2008- Astle, Fleming and Styris to retire... (maybe not Styris)

Vincent
How
Fulton
Marshall
Taylor
Ryder
Oram
McCullum
Franklin
Vettori
Bond (please)

Desperately need an opener to come through to partner How, Papps could be an option I guess. That is actually a pretty talented side, possibly a bowler light but hopefully a decent quick comes through in the next 5 years or so.

Will do a second tier thing later.

 

[Autobahn]

NZ in 2008- Astle, Fleming and Styris to retire... (maybe not Styris)

Vincent
How
Fulton
Marshall
Taylor
Ryder
Oram
McCullum
Franklin
Vettori
Bond (please)

Desperately need an opener to come through to partner How, Papps could be an option I guess. That is actually a pretty talented side, possibly a bowler light but hopefully a decent quick comes through in the next 5 years or so.

Will do a second tier thing later.

Is that an ODI line-up or a test line-up?

ODI: there's no fifth bowler there and it's gonna be risking it to try and make up 10 overs with military-medium pace or second-string tweakers.

Test: Far too much reliance on Bond it almost looks like you're going to use him as a stock bowler there or Vettori is looking like bowling long defensive spells to tie up an end, while the seamers are rotated from the other end.

Is oram good enough to be a number six batsmen? And i take it vettori is the captain of this particular ship?

 

[Blaze]

Is that an ODI line-up or a test line-up?

ODI: there's no fifth bowler there and it's gonna be risking it to try and make up 10 overs with military-medium pace or second-string tweakers.

Test: Far too much reliance on Bond it almost looks like you're going to use him as a stock bowler there or Vettori is looking like bowling long defensive spells to tie up an end, while the seamers are rotated from the other end.

Is oram good enough to be a number six batsmen? And i take it vettori is the captain of this particular ship?

Test, although the ODI team will probably look a lot similar. Ryder is an all rounder, How is useful with the ball as well.

I guess there is a lot of reliance on Bond, but it is the same atm anyway... I guess another bowler could be picked at Marshall's expense but there just aren't any good enough to warrent selection. Maybe Tuffey if he comes back well..

Look at Oram's test record with the bat.

Vettori will be the next NZ captain barring injury.

 

[Autobahn]

Test, although the ODI team will probably look a lot similar. Ryder is an all rounder, How is useful with the ball as well.

I guess there is a lot of reliance on Bond, but it is the same atm anyway... I guess another bowler could be picked at Marshall's expense but there just aren't any good enough to warrent selection. Maybe Tuffey if he comes back well..

Look at Oram's test record with the bat.

Vettori will be the next NZ captain barring injury.

Well Oram averages about 30 at no.6 but he's only been playing there 7 times so looks like a good bet with a couple of more tests and some stability in the order, and anyway Oram's more of a batting-allrounder i take it?

Ryder looks good with ball although his economy rate in domestic one day looks a little high really for a regular ODI bowler, and i feel he might be targeted by the batsmen.

How doesn't look like a regular bowler at all, more like a partnership breaker than anything else.

And i think the only thing keeping Papps out the team is injury really, how often does he keep wicket or is it just in an emergency?

 

[chris.hinton]

Papps should be in the New Zelanad side every match

 

[Kippax]

NZ in 2008- Astle, Fleming and Styris to retire... (maybe not Styris)

Vincent
How
Fulton
Marshall
Taylor
Ryder
Oram
McCullum
Franklin
Vettori
Bond (please)

Desperately need an opener to come through to partner How, Papps could be an option I guess. That is actually a pretty talented side, possibly a bowler light but hopefully a decent quick comes through in the next 5 years or so.

Will do a second tier thing later.

Yeah, the only reason Styris would retire at 32 would be that knee problem IMO. Hard to imagine someone with his type of personality saying "bored now" and becoming a businessman (Parore-style), or "mentally thrashed now" and becoming some kind of media pundit (Rigor-style).

As for the bowlers, I'd like to think (well, hope) Richard Sherlock will have got his body under control by 2008 and is on the fringe of NZ selection. Hopefully he isn't just bog standard medium pace by then. Same could be said for James McMillan, who will officially be a write-off if he hasn't got his fitness sorted out by '08.

Then there's someone like Mark Gillespie, who I see is now 18 wickets ahead of anyone else in this year's SC. For a bounce bowler up around 140 that's fairly impressive (i.e. he's not a Tama Canning or Andrew Schwass). Trouble is he's 26 and hasn't even been on an 'A' tour yet. We all know Bracewell and co. like to at least pretend they're planning things well in advance, test openers excluded.

A possible '08 test side -

How
Ryder (not as crazy as some might think - Ryder relished opening at academy level and has more restraint than is often credited with.)
Fulton
Styris
Taylor
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Franklin
Bond
Sherlock/J McMillan

 

[Blaze]

Te Ahu Davis hasn't come on yet either...

 

[Richard]

Feel free to bring this up in 2006 and make me look an idiot

ACADEMY SQUAD

Kadeer Ali (Worcs)
Top order batsman, Kabir's cousin. Has promise and has scored plenty of runs at age group level... but not senior level yet.
Gut feeling: sinking without trace

Simon Francis (Somst)
Pace bowler and injury prone (like we needed another one) - ex-Hants. Not seen too much.
Journeyman County Pro

Alex Gidman (Gloucs)
Hasn't set the World alight but was absolutely fantastic in the Twenty20 final. Useful medium pace.
100+ ODIs and more than a few Tests

Simon Jones (Glam)
We know him. Can he come back from injury properly?
Heart says loads of wickets, head says retired at 28

Shaftab Khalid (Worcs)
Allegedly has a doosra. Will be hoping for Batty to clear off to England and get some CC starts. Could be special.
Fringe of England.. a few Asian tours

Michael Lumb (Yorks)
Another in the line of Yorkie batsmen who the selectors think have got that X factor.
Following Vaughan's footsteps

Sajjid Mahmood (Lancs)
Seamer. That's all I know.
Really don't know...

Graham Napier (Essex)
In the Mark Ealham mould, seamer who can stick around and grit out scores that he probably shouldn't.
ODI man

Scott Newman (Surrey)
Big double ton for the Seconds, will be opening for Surrey this year post-Ward
Will follow Ward into England.. and out again

Kevin Pietersen (Notts)
Tons of potential - but has the nationalisation Hicked him?
Several England chances... but no real success

+Matt Prior (Sussex)
Likely to be in Read's shadow until the Notts man drops the baton
ODI stand in? Will struggle to displace Read

Bilal Shafayat (Notts)
Hasn't stepped up to County level from U19s. Temperament remains a question - likely to remain an enigma
Either the New Botham, or a complete failure

James Tredwell (Kent)
Useful offspinner and utility batsman. Safe in the field
ODIs abound and an Asian tour or three

Graeme Wagg (Warks)
Allrounder yet to show real form at senior level
Road to obscurity

UNDER 19 SQUAD - Very little county experience and as such my knowledge of them is highly limited and guessworkish.

*Samit Patel (Notts)
Fluent LH bat and SLA, 2001 U15 player of the year. Key batsman.

Ravinder Bopara (Essex)
RFM and lower order bat

Tim Bresnan (Yorks)
Impressive RFM and tail end hitter

Dan Broadbent (Yorks)
LH batsman and occasional offie.

Alistair Cook (Essex)
Opening bat, performed well for U19s in summer

Steven Davies (Worcs)
Back up wicketkeeper to New.

Adam Harrison (Glam)
David's brother, promising RFM

James Hildreth (Somst)
One of the only Somerset players to show some degree of grit last summer. Could go a long way. RH middle order.

Mark Lawson (Yorks)
Leggie. Blame Jenner.

+Tom New (Leics)
Keeper-bat. Can hit the ball very hard.

Liam Plunkett (Durham)
Forms a new ball pair with Bresnan that will rival anything on offer at the WC. Lower order barnacle.

David Stiff (Yorks)
Out and out paceman

Mark Turner (Durham)
RHB, RMF. Middle name is Leif.

Luke Wright (Leics)
Played for Bourne in Lincs ECB Prem in 03. Middle order bat and RM wicket to wicket.

Well, you asked for it ... all right, I suppose it was a year late.

I particularly like the Pietersen one (for inaccuracy) and the Prior one (for accuracy).

(Yes, this has already been done, just couldn't resist it again in the current climate)

 

[James]

As you were warned last time you returned Richard, don't dig up every single old thread you can find!

It annoys members, and prevents discussion on latest cricketing topics. Anymore of it and a warning will be given out.

 

[Richard]

I'm sorry, it was nothing to do with my returning.

It was just to make the point - after someone else dug-up a thread and started laughing at inaccurate forecasts - that you can find inaccurate forecasts in just about any old thread.

As I said in the other thread: OK, OK, I'll stop now.

 

[Kweek]

Richard has a point James...



good laugh this thread though
more entertaining then most CC threads.