Has Tim Southee "arrived"?

[hendrix]

he kinda has been out and out gun though. averaging 24 for the last 2 years. 7 for in an innings against India, in India, which almost gave NZ a shot a test win there. Absolutely mauled Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka. 10 wicket haul at Lord's. Etc etc.

 

[Spark]

I know, and it's a line-ball thing, but when you have two really good but really similar bowlers, sometimes you just have to go with your gut feel and for some reason I'd feel more secure with Anderson than Southee

 

[benchmark00]

It's almost as if bowling well against glorified minnows such as West Indies, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and India away from home is not a great measure of quality

 

[Daemon]

It's almost as if bowling well against glorified minnows such as West Indies, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and India away from home is not a great measure of quality

Junaid doesn't have that either.

What about his performances against India in India and England in England?

 

[hendrix]

One day Benchmark will learn to read.

 

[benchmark00]

Measure of quality = watching someone bowl and thinking they have the tools to trouble class batsmen.

 

[hendrix]

Measure of quality = troubling class batsmen.

 

[Maximas]

Measure of quality = Listen to Benchmark dammit!

 

[Maximas]

England in England?

England are the most glorified minnows of them all

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but their stats are remarkably similar:

JA ave 30.67 ER 3.10 SR 59.3
TS ave 30.69 ER 3.16 SR 58.2

 

[Howsie]

He's the number two bowler in the world behind Dale Steyn, perhaps third with Mitch Johnson second.

 

[Dan]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but their stats are remarkably similar:

JA ave 30.67 ER 3.10 SR 59.3
TS ave 30.69 ER 3.16 SR 58.2

Career trajectories as well - crap to start with, before becoming better than anyone thought they ever could be.

He's the number two bowler in the world behind Dale Steyn, perhaps third with Mitch Johnson second.

Now this is just silly. And I say this as a guy who is at the point of supporting NZ just as much as his home country.

 

[Spark]

I don't get it, wtf is with people suddenly forgetting/underrating Philander?

 

[Flem274*]

Haha I was waiting for Howsie to find this thread.

 

[Bahnz]

I don't get it, wtf is with people suddenly forgetting/underrating Philander?

Duh, he's bowled badly 1 match in a row. Jesus, this **** isn't hard.

 

[Bahnz]

Haha I was waiting for Howsie to find this thread.

Yeah it's a pity that Benchy's cleared off. Otherwise we could've been in for some Dubai-scale fireworks.

 

[Flem274*]

I don't get it, wtf is with people suddenly forgetting/underrating Philander?

I reckon a lot of it is indignation from a vocal minority. He's a fat little medium quick with a h4x record, so everyone is waiting for him to fail/can't wait for him to fail as a kind of "see, he's **** really" petty revenge because he doesn't fit the archetype of the world class quick. I reckon if we had a forum in McGrath's early days we would have seen the same sort of thing once he established himself after a slow start (McGrath was a very different bowler, but also a guy who would have been prone to being underrated early on).

I think the bloke is fantastic. Makes it look so simple.

 

[Flem274*]

It's almost as if bowling well against glorified minnows such as West Indies, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and India away from home is not a great measure of quality

So what you're saying is Patto is terrible too then? Because two of his three best series were beating 2011 NZ up on green tops and beating India up in Australia.

Can't have it both ways. Should we exclude the NZ bowling in Hobart because they were bowling to 2011 Australia on a greenie?

 

[Bahnz]

I reckon a lot of it is indignation from a vocal minority. He's a fat little medium quick with a h4x record, so everyone is waiting for him to fail/can't wait for him to fail as a kind of "see, he's **** really" petty revenge because he doesn't fit the archetype of the world class quick. I reckon if we had a forum in McGrath's early days we would have seen the same sort of thing once he established himself after a slow start.

I think the bloke is fantastic. Makes it look so simple.

I think it's also partly down to people having a reaction to his stats, which definitely flatter him as a bowler (in that they indicate he's the greatest bowler of the post-war era).

 

[hendrix]

So what you're saying is Patto is terrible too then? Because two of his three best series were beating 2011 NZ up on green tops and beating India up in Australia.

Can't have it both ways. Should we exclude the NZ bowling in Hobart because they were bowling to 2011 Australia on a greenie?

you don't even need to resort to this argument, because England at home, India at home and Sri Lanka at home are not minnows, and guys like Pujara, Kohli, Sangakkarra, Trott, Prior, Pietersen etc weren't terrible batsmen when he ran through their sides.