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Has Tim Southee "arrived"?

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think the fact that you can argue that he is not in the top 5 at present shows what a healthy state fast bowling is in right now.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Can be as good as anyone NZ have had bar Hadlee as long as he stays fit and focussed. The guy is a quality bowler and his partnership with Boult is one of the best new ball pairs around at the moment. The fact you can comfortably mention them alongside the Aussie, SA and England new ball pairs says it all.

Not only is Southee a quality bowler he remains a dangerous lower order slogger too which will help if/when he loses form as extra runs might keep his place a bit longer.
I rate him, but still don't think he will be as good as Bond and Jack Cowie.
 

Flem274*

123/5
I really can't believe that Anderson is still rated so highly - the guy averages 36 away from England. Give him a Kookaburra and he's not much better than Ishant
eh can we not do stuff like this? Being not terrible at cricket is nice but it wasn't long ago we were on the receiving end of the dismissiveness from overconfident chest beating fans of other countries. Need to be good winners.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a bad bowler, but he isn't a top tier bowler like he is made out to be a lot of the time. I'd put him around the Siddle/Morkel etc. level of being good bowlers, but nothing particularly special.
Yeah but there's no "top tier" prerequisite for being the 5th best bowler in the world. There just has to be no more than four blokes better than you.
 

benchmark00

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A portion of seam bowlers better than tim southee

Steyn
Philander
Morkel
Harris
Johnson
Pattinson
Broad
Anderson
Junaid
Siddle


NB: List not exhaustive
 

Flem274*

123/5
no one bother. you'll only get infracted for feuding in 10 posts time after you snap at the ":laugh:", "fmd" and other witty variants.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Steyn - no disagreement there.
Philander - see Steyn
Morkel - as an individual bowler I wouldn't have him above Southee. Goes missing too often, though at his best he is very dangerous. Wouldn't swap him out of the SA attack for Southee though.
Harris - yep
Johnson - yep
Pattinson - needs to stay on the park first, but his best > Southee's. We just don't see enough of it.
Broad - yes IMO, as has been outlined earlier.
Anderson - after Anderson's last two series, albeit injured, I'd have him just below Southee
Junaid - probably about equal on potential, but Southee's done it more consistently and for longer
Siddle - coming from you? :laugh:



Southee has produced some bloody good spells of consistent outswing bowling, at decent pace, all across the world. I think top 5 is overrating him, but some of the names on that list - especially given their propensity to not be on the park or their inexperience - shouldn't be considered better all-round bowlers.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
I probably would have Siddle ahead of Southee though. Just. Both ahead of Broad and Morkel.
Siddle's an ideal 3rd seamer for the Australian attack, but I wouldn't say he's a better bowler than Southee. As an individual bowler, Southee is well ahead - more tools to take wickets on all surfaces, as he's shown over the past couple of years.

In saying that, like with Morkel, I wouldn't drop Siddle to get Southee into the Australian attack. Very different roles.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
You know Benchy doesn't rate a bowler if he thinks Siddle is better than him.
You can tell he struggled with it, all the other bowlers are grouped by country.

EDIT: I wonder though, should Anderson really be hurt that badly by a bad one-and-a-half series?
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
You can tell he struggled with it, all the other bowlers are grouped by country.

EDIT: I wonder though, should Anderson really be hurt that badly by a bad one-and-a-half series?
If you're emphasising current form (as I have been), yes. Southee has been ridiculously good over the past 18-24 months, and Anderson has been poor for the last 9 Tests he's played.

If you were picking an opening bowler tomorrow, would you pick Southee or Anderson (assuming they are the only two options)?
 

Spark

Global Moderator
I'd still probably pick Anderson, tbh, purely on a "who would I back to do well against a good batting lineup over a decent-length Test series" basis. Class over form and all that, and conditions that nullify Anderson would probably nullify Southee too.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Tim Southee bowling in Sri Lanka.

I think Southee coming from bowling crap, and Anderson coming from his awesome 2010-2012 period clouds things a bit. Southee has really improved, and with Anderson dropping back somewhat over recent months, I think it's a very close run thing.

I'm not arguing Anderson's crap, by any means. Just that Southee has become very, very good at a similar style of bowling.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Tim Southee bowling in Sri Lanka.

I think Southee coming from bowling crap, and Anderson coming from his awesome 2010-2012 period clouds things a bit. Southee has really improved, and with Anderson dropping back somewhat over recent months, I think it's a very close run thing.

I'm not arguing Anderson's crap, by any means. Just that Southee has become very, very good at a similar style of bowling.
The similarity is sort of the problem, though. When two bowlers do really similar things, my natural inclination is to go for the more "proven" one unless they've just been out-and-out gun from the top.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
AFAIC Southee is proven. He's done it for 18 months in all conditions, with better stats than Anderson has ever returned IIRC.

It isn't like Southee's only put this together in the past summer; he's been doing it for quite some time now.

It's not like they have dissimilar career trajectories, tbh. Picked young and failed at international level early, then came back and were gun. Anderson's just 4 years ahead.
 

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