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Thread: Are Tendulkar and Ponting done? Is it time to call it a day?

  1. #91
    International Debutant Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    For me you only drop a great player who is out of form when you have a replacement...I am not sure India has a replacement..Apart from Kohli, I don't rate any of the new Indian batsmen too highly.. and Kohli is already in the team...so not sure who would be Tendulkar's replacement.

    Ponting's on the other hand is a different case, Australia have tons of batsmen who are good enough and Ponting has to go now. I would give him one more test.

  2. #92
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    For me you only drop a great player who is out of form when you have a replacement...I am not sure India has a replacement..Apart from Kohli, I don't rate any of the new Indian batsmen too highly.. and Kohli is already in the team...so not sure who would be Tendulkar's replacement.

    Ponting's on the other hand is a different case, Australia have tons of batsmen who are good enough and Ponting has to go now. I would give him one more test.
    If anything I think the complete opposite of all that is true.

    The batting depth in this country at the moment is terrible. I'd be all for dropping Ponting if I thought there was a ready made replacement for him, but there's not. There's no question in my mind that he's still one of the best six bats in the country, and that's true even if he doesn't score many runs against the best attacks anymore, because no other bastard is going to either.
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  3. #93
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    If anything I think the complete opposite of all that is true.

    The batting depth in this country at the moment is terrible. I'd be all for dropping Ponting if I thought there was a ready made replacement for him, but there's not. There's no question in my mind that he's still one of the best six bats in the country, and that's true even if he doesn't score many runs against the best attacks anymore, because no other bastard is going to either.
    I think it says it all that both Ponting and Hussey have been persevered with through terrible runs of form because the selectors know there isn't anyone better to replace them. Gone are the days when the likes of Mark Waugh got dropped when they probably had something to offer still simply because they had so many options at that time. What Australia would give for a 25 year old Stuart Law and Brad Hodge right now.

  4. #94
    International Vice-Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    So a couple of good innings should give someone 3 years grace when they're totally underperformance then, interesting theory that.
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...g;view=innings

    he didn't look as good as before, although he still managed to produce enough runs from
    dec 2003 to mar 2005
    Note I have included his full tour of AUS and excluded his 248* in Bangladesh.


    no tests for 9 months and then
    super slump- dec 2005 to jan 2007

    Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

    and then a poor showing in the world cup only made matters worse...
    this was the point where he deserved to be dropped imo.
    Last edited by centurymaker; 26-11-2012 at 01:04 AM.
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  5. #95
    International Debutant Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    If anything I think the complete opposite of all that is true.

    The batting depth in this country at the moment is terrible. I'd be all for dropping Ponting if I thought there was a ready made replacement for him, but there's not. There's no question in my mind that he's still one of the best six bats in the country, and that's true even if he doesn't score many runs against the best attacks anymore, because no other bastard is going to either.
    To start with

    Mark Cosgrove | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

    and

    Usman Khawaja | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

    and

    Phillip Hughes | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo


    You have to do tweaking of course..
    Clarke has to move to 4. Watson has to come back and the myth that he is an all rounder and not a batsman has to be shattered once and for all.

    So you have Watson and Clarke and 3 and 4 so you have your two best batsmen in those positions..which allows you to try a new player at 5 or 6..if you are going for Hughes than Cowan at 3, Watson at 5.

    Not to mention that a certain Mr Katich was unceremoniously dropped for no reason!!
    Last edited by Black_Warrior; 26-11-2012 at 01:15 AM.

  6. #96
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    To start with

    Mark Cosgrove | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

    and

    Usman Khawaja | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

    and

    Phillip Hughes | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo


    You have to do tweaking of course..
    Clarke has to move to 4. Watson has to come back and the illusion that he is an all rounder and not a batsman has to be shattered once and for all.

    So you have Watson and Clarke and 3 and 4 so you have your two best batsmen in those positions..which allows you to try a new player at 5 or 6..if you are going for Hughes than Cowan at 3, Watson at 5.

    Not to mention that a certain Mr Katich was unceremoniously dropped for no reason!!
    Hughes and Khawaja both have serious technical issues that they're working on. Given Hughes in particular is in the process of completely changing his technique, I don't think recalling him to Test cricket midway through that process is going to help at all, especially since it's already been tried once before and completely confused the bloke.

    Cosgrove has been blacklisted; he's not going to be selected. Katich has retired now so he's not relevant here.

    If Ponting was dropped we'd end up with someone like Bailey or Doolan in the side, or Quiney retained when Watson returned, and as much as I'll admit Ponting has severely declined I'm still firmly of the opinion that he's better than those blokes.

  7. #97
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Batting stocks seem to be a problem throughout international cricket tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by DingDong View Post
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    RIP Craigos. A true CW legend. You will be missed.

  8. #98
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Batting stocks seem to be a problem throughout international cricket tbh
    India have a few good uns....

    ....which makes their retention of Yuvraj even more baffling.
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  9. #99
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Pujara is the biz for sure, but the India fans don't seem awfully confident in the alternatives to Tendulkar and Yuvraj

  10. #100
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    But yeah it is a shame. A few years back Australia probably had 10 batsmen alone that could've been guns for another country.

  11. #101
    International Vice-Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    this should be the top7 for the next test imo but none of these changes will be made, im sure about that.

    sehwag
    rahane (gambhir out)
    pujara
    badrinath (tendulkar retired)
    kohli
    rohit sharma (yuvraj axed)
    saha (dhoni retired from tests)

  12. #102
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Pujara is the biz for sure, but the India fans don't seem awfully confident in the alternatives to Tendulkar and Yuvraj
    Rahane is pretty highly rated among Indian fans; the only slight problem is that he's a number three batsman who sometimes opens rather than a genuine middle order player. Rohit Sharma polarised opinion because he's had some struggles in ODIs but he's a serious talent with a very aesthetically pleasing technique and he's been scoring domestic runs for fun of late. Tiwary is the one the fans don't rate but he's been dominating domestically as well. There's Badrinath too of course even if he's getting on a bit now.

    If Australia had two batsmen of Sharma/Rahane quality sitting on the bench (obviously assuming they were Australian and therefore suited to Australian conditions etc) I'd have no issue with anyone wanting to drop Ponting. We don't though. I think Hughes in particular will get there eventually but not now. Khawaja is a bit of a 50/50 one for me in general.

  13. #103
    International Debutant Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Hughes and Khawaja both have serious technical issues that they're working on. Given Hughes in particular is in the process of completely changing his technique, I don't think recalling him to Test cricket midway through that process is going to help at all, especially since it's already been tried once before and completely confused the bloke.

    Cosgrove has been blacklisted; he's not going to be selected. Katich has retired now so he's not relevant here.

    If Ponting was dropped we'd end up with someone like Bailey or Doolan in the side, or Quiney retained when Watson returned, and as much as I'll admit Ponting has severely declined I'm still firmly of the opinion that he's better than those blokes.
    On Katich, the only reason I mentioned him is to make the point that if Australia do not have batting reserves, why the hell would you drop someone like Katich?

    As for Cosgrove..I am quite in the dark about this..Can you elaborate?

    As for Khwaja..everyone has technical flaws..based on what I saw of him..I think if he comes in at 5 or 6 and is given a consistent, he can be one for the future.. I remember a gritty 50 he made in South Africa which really impressed me.
    Last edited by Black_Warrior; 26-11-2012 at 01:25 AM.

  14. #104
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    On Katich, the only reason I mentioned him is to make the point that if Australia do not have batting reserves, why the hell would you drop someone like Katich?

    As for Cosgrove..I am quite in the dark about this..Can you elaborate?
    Overweight.

  15. #105
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    On Katich, the only reason I mentioned him is to make the point that if Australia do not have batting reserves, why the hell would you drop someone like Katich?

    As for Cosgrove..I am quite in the dark about this..Can you elaborate?

    As for Khwaja..everyone has technical flaws..based on what I saw of him..I think if he comes in at 5 or 6 and is given a consistent, he can be one for the future.. I remember a gritty 50 he made in South Africa which really impressed me.
    They're not going to pick Cosgrove unless he gets down to about half the size he is now. Even South Australia gave up on letting him fail their fitness standards and shipped him off to Tasmania, and South Australia are absolutely rubbish. And he's gained weight since then!

    Whether you agree with that or not, he's not in the frame, so if Ponting gets the arse he won't be replacement.

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