*Official* Pak In NZ Thread

[anzac]

well a 13 man squad has been named for the first 2 ODIs, with 1 to be ommitted from the following:

Fleming
Cumming
Marshall
Styris
McMillan
McCullum
Oram
Cairns
Vettori
Tuffey
Butler
Adams
Mills

Cairns is still under an illness cloud so he could miss out. I am surprised to see Butler's inclusion as IMO he is better suited to the longer game. Cumming gets the nod ahead of Vincent but Jones can feel unlucky.

I'd expect to see Butler dropped from the squad and perhaps Cairns to sit the 1st ODI out unless he recovers quickly, in which case Mills could find himself carrying the drinks.

The fact that this squad has only been named for the 1st 2 matches is a good indicator that the selectors are still not confident they have the right mix yet, either opening or in bowling at the death - further indications IMO that opportunities were not taken to experiment in the 5 ODIs in Pakistan re the top order options .

 

[Craig]

No surprise to see Vincent dropped. The annoying thing is, that New Zealand have been dominant IMO in this series, except for some poor batting, good bowling and good batting and some interference with the weather is mainly the reasons why Pakistan look like winning this Test and series.

I still believe Inzi's captaincy has been ordinary.

 

[marc71178]

annoying thing is, that New Zealand have been dominant IMO in this series, except for some poor batting, good bowling and good batting and some interference with the weather is mainly the reasons why Pakistan look like winning this Test and series.

That's a lot of reasons though!!!

It just underlines the beauty of Cricket to me.

 

[marc71178]

That said, there's reports of rain possibly tomorrow, and Inzamam didn't take the extra 8 overs tonight when only 28 were needed.

That decision has the potential to really bounce back at him...

 

[Adamc]

That said, there's reports of rain possibly tomorrow, and Inzamam didn't take the extra 8 overs tonight when only 28 were needed.

That decision has the potential to really bounce back at him...

In the end it didn't. Play was delayed 30 mins, but inzi and youhana took no chances, wrapping it up in under 4 overs. An interesting series in which both sides dominated for periods, but never for the entirety of the match. In the end Shoaib was the difference. Makes for interesting reading of the ICC test championship, with Pakistan replacing NZ at no. 3. NZ could drop further still if India wins in Aus...

 

[Kent]

The press are saying how embarrassing this loss was for NZ, but surely everyone realises that Pakistan just had more batting and bowling talent. In boxing terms, NZ jabbed and bobbed its way to win about 4 of the first 8 rounds, but finally met an opponent that could expose its glass jaw in the 9th.

You can't cover cracks with slightly better captaincy, fielding, and a useful lower-order forever, and I think the plethora of 2-test series may have created a smugness in this regard. Now we've finally been burned in one, and instead of the prospect of a comeback a la Australia, there's now an emptiness that 11 ODIs won't fill.

Obviously there's no such thing as a memorable 2-test series, but here's what I'll take from this one...

+'s:

* Butler, despite the inconsistency, the ego and the Brett Lee ground punch, shows some promise.

* Fleming's outstanding 192, Vettori and Oram's highest scores.

* Pakistan's promising top 3, Shabbir as a new seam bowler.

* Kaneria providing entertainment, both with ball and amusing chipmonk features.

-'s:

* Vettori becoming more innocuous with age.

* NZ's twin collapses.

* Coming off a test 100, Lou Vincent being almost talked into woeful form. Joe Talkback was right, they should've done a Rodney Redmond to him after all!

 

[zohaib]

No surprise to see Vincent dropped. The annoying thing is, that New Zealand have been dominant IMO in this series, except for some poor batting, good bowling and good batting and some interference with the weather is mainly the reasons why Pakistan look like winning this Test and series.

I still believe Inzi's captaincy has been ordinary.

Apart from day 2 of the first test and day 2 and 3 of the second test New Zeland did not dominate Pakistan dominating 3 out of 10 days will not win u the series on the other hand when Pakistan dominated the black caps it was complete demolition.So when you play away from home in alien conditions if you play the way Pakistan played then you really deserve to win.

 

[anzac]

firstly congradulations to Pakistan on their series victory & promotion to No3 in the rankings. They have an exciting mix in this squad and I hope for crickets' sake as well as theirs that they are able to put their troublesome internal politics behind them & be allowed to entertain us for some time......

I agree with much of what has been said in the post series analysis so far....

IMO NZ dominated the state of play in both matches at the completion of the first innings, and were in a position to push forward and secure a victory. However in both instances the batsmen showed a complete lack of discipline & application when faced by class pace bowling to stage a batting collapse of match turning preportions.

Little blame can be laid at the lower order & tail, and it is the senior players & middle order who must especially shoulder the responsibility. The fact that it happened in consecutive test 2nd innings to basically the same lineup further illustrates their lack of discipline! :!(

At this point the weaknesses of the bowling attack were then exposed - little variety re the seam bowlers, and little penetration from anywhere. Consequently they lacked the firepower to press home their advantage and to take a victory - a rather common theme in the post Hadlee pre Bond era, and still relevant when Bond is unavailable.

Even tho' Tuffey bowled a good line & length for the most part, his lack of pace posed little serious problems for the Pakistani batsmen who were determined in their efforts to occupy the crease to get established, and then to punish the tiring attack. Oram bowled well in both Tests, but is not a 'strike' bowler. The Pakistani application to task reminds me of the NZ batting effort in that 3rd Test at the WACA.

Butler is a genuine contender for regular selection, but must further his skill level re swing & full pitched deliveries, and more importantly he needs to control his line. Again there is little in the way of bowling prospects as the domestic game is currently dominated by RH medium / fast seam bowlers. IMO Franklin should be an option considered for the longer game simply because he changes the angles - other than that I'm at a loss unless there is a good medium pacer who can offer genuine swing with control of line & length!

Good to see NZ are contemplating an approach to Akram re bowling coach - hopefully this will not only be at senior level but also at Acadamy level for the next generation of cricketers.

I also agree that NZ's recent proliferation of 2 Test series has contributed somewhat to this fiasco regarding the lack of application, as they have hardly been put to the sword during this time apart from by Pakistan. Furthermore the more damaging effects of these 2 Test series & tours dominated by ODIs has been to see a lack of batting new blood introduced at Test level, thus there are little or no immediate options available with any experience.

I'm more inclining to the opinion that Astle should bat at no4 when he is fit with Styris at 5. Preferably I'd like to see some new blood introduced to give further competition for places, to the extent that Styris & McMillan are almost / in effect competing for the no6 spot, as currently neither have shown the application required for no5, yet both did in India!

:!(

 

[anzac]

unless NZ learns some lessons from this defeat very quickly, then I predict a similar outcome to the ODI series!

Both Shoaib & Sami have already torn NZ apart in ODIs & have already done so on this tour in the Tests in ODI like spells of devastation!

With most of the NZ ODI side based upon the Test side the signs are not encouraging.

 

[anzac]

much has already been said about the batting collapses by NZ, and in particular their regularity against the express pace & inswinging yorkers of Pakistani pace bowlers.

However while this is true it should not excuse the fact that these collapses have taken place against other teams as well as Pakistan in both forms of the game (Australia have inflicted some memorable collapses), but perhaps with more regularity in the ODI format. This however is no excuse as both the Test & ODI teams are based around the same core of players, and this shows a history of failed technique / application.

 

[Scribbller]

Must say some nice ass kicking by Pakistan, Shoib rocked and there was very little NZ batsmen could do to reverse swing at over 90ks per hour.

 

[Rich2001]

First ODI just started and Pakistan in trouble at 72/3

Pakistan 72/3 (22.0 ov)

Imran Farhat 24
Yasir Hameed 19
Saleem Elahi 13*

Oram 10-3-28-2
Tuffey 6-0-23-0
Cairns 5-1-12-1
Adams 1-0-3-0

Teams:


New Zealand: *SP Fleming, CD Cumming, HJH Marshall, SB Styris, CD McMillan, CL Cairns, JDP Oram, +BB McCullum, AR Adams, DL Vettori, DR Tuffey.

Pakistan: Yasir Hameed, Imran Farhat, Saleem Elahi, Yousuf Youhana, Shoaib Malik, *Inzamam-ul-Haq, +Moin Khan, Abdul Razzaq, Azhar Mahmood, Mohammad Sami, Shabbir Ahmed.

 

[MZ_RPFC]

4/84 now only going at 3.15!

There in a bit of trouble and whatever score they get New Zealand should be able to get easily. Although I dont know what the pitch is like.

Elahi on 20* and Inzamam-Ul-Haq on 4*.

 

[Rich2001]

"Shoaib Akhtar was a late withdrawal after sustaining a groin injury while warming up before the match."

That wasn't to clever mate

 

[Rich2001]

4/84 now only going at 3.15!

There in a bit of trouble and whatever score they get New Zealand should be able to get easily. Although I dont know what the pitch is like.

Elahi on 20* and Inzamam-Ul-Haq on 4*.

Chris you should have hung about 30 secs longer on the screen


Pakistan now 88/5 (28.0 ov)

Inzamam-ul-Haq 8* & Moin Khan 0*

S Styris 2.2-2-0-2 :O

 

[Rich2001]

Although I dont know what the pitch is like.

"Pakistan, after a steady start, lost their way and reached 60 for 3 after 15.1 overs in the first one-day international at Auckland. Amid the nip and seam,"

"But the two opening bowlers settled down into a good rhythm thereafter with a probing line and some alarming lift. The pitch came to their aid too and some exaggerated seam movement vindicated Fleming's decision to field first."

 

[MZ_RPFC]

So its not the best of batting wickets then is it.

5/93.

 

[Adamc]

So its not the best of batting wickets then is it.

5/93.

It's actually not bad. 7/229 with Moin 72* from 68 and Mahmood 26* off 10. Some irregular bounce and movement now, NZ will do well to win from here.

 

[NikhilN]

nz win...hehe

 

[Tim]

Well im back from a decent holiday & after that embarassing loss in the test series I thought we were going to be dead & buried in the ODI's, but not so it seems...it was good to see Styris return to form so quickly after that woeful shot in the 2nd innings at the Basin.

I thought throughout the 2 match series, NZ & Pakistan were relatively even although despite the fact that Fleming & Bracewell tried to convince everyone that the 2nd innings jitters in Hamilton was just a once off.
Shoaib was outstanding, easily the best express bowler at the moment..for NZ's sake I hope he knocks over the other countries or it could prove to be embarassing for us.

Despite the fact that NZ won that ODI, there are still mega concerns about death bowling & the middle order where we just seem to throw the match away within the space of about 2 overs.
Andre Adams seems to have as much confidence as he did when he last played for NZ & he'll need a good performance in Queenstown or else he could well face the chop for Kyle Mills to step in.

Blah, people can tell me that Oram is a good batsman..but there's no way you can play both Oram & Cairns because they're not consistent enough. We'll have to wait another 6 or 7 innings now for Oram to get a decent score & Cairns..well his dismissal today was crazy & the look of confusion on his face after he got out made me laugh.

But the fact that NZ played well at the end & the fact that Brendon McCullum played a super hand at the end with Styris (take note Richard)..it may well give NZ confidence to go on & take the series.