*Official* Pak In NZ Thread

[THE MINGSTER]

I recognise that Marshall's domestic form has not been spectacular since RSA, however I am saying that regardless of that he was selected for the ODI series in Pakistan where he succeeded & as such is the current form batsman against this team. Since he has not played any further domestic cricket as they have only just returned from Pakistan, so that arguement is somewhat redundant. I was further highlighting that while limited, he is a known quantity at International level so far as his temperament etc are concerned - hence my preference for him as opposed to Jones & McIntosh..........

Oh yeah, Marshall has shone great temperament in the dead ODI's. His 100 was achieved when Inzy wasn't applying his first choice bowlers. ODI's are different in Tests. Totally different. You cannot pick someone because of his ODI form.

So Jones can bat in the top 4 - what I was questioning was his style of play which appears to be fairly defensive from other comments I have read - and I question the roles he could play as batting cover - hence the reference to moving Vincent who has a more 'user friendly' style & greater experience batting with these players..........

As some players in history have shown, you don't need to be attacking and have a good range of shots to succeed at Test level.

Hey, have you heard of Mark Richardson?

I was using McMillan as an example as he is the lowest specialist batsman in the lineup, but why would they call in another player - isn't that what batting cover is meant to do in a squad & wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the original selection???????????

No. Especially when you are playing at Home. Say you had a specialist opener in the squad and a middle-order player got injured, instead of make shifting the order wouldnt it make more sense by selecting another middle order player instead?

Although this may be his 1st season not as an opener, from what I have read I was primarily referring to his style of play which does not seem to be as defensive as Jones so far as application to different roles as batting cover.........

37 matches is a bit more than 1 season - started in 98/99 so that makes it approaching 5 or more. Last year may have been his most productive but there have been signs of continuous improvement from what I have read........

Tim McIntosh will open again once Rigor and Lou are gone. He is an opener, he was just under the instructions from Bracewell to give Rihcardsion and Vincent more time in the middle.

McIntosh is a defensive style of player, and I wouldn't say he is more attacking than Jones. They both are the same type of player. Trust me, I have actually seen him play.

Furthermore at no time did I say to play them after 1 crash hot season - I said I believed they needed to be introduced sooner rather than later while they were in form, as opposed to waiting for several seasons to evaluate them. Vettori made his intro with very little F/C, as did Lee for OZ, & the sub continent has a habit of this.......

This is a mistake we have made in our history with Franklin, McCullum etc. Give them more matured in the First Class scene first.

Tell me who has suffered because of this? Who?

[Tim]

ok boys, I think we don't wanna get too heated over this.

[anzac]

Originally posted by THE MINGSTER
Fleming has batted at 4 in Tests 45 times and at 3 25 times.

Astle usually bats at 5 and McMillan 6. That is where he got his quick fire double century at. Astle played at 5 43 times and at 4 only 16 times.

http://www.cricmania.com/DB/stats.ph...tephen+Fleming

http://www.cricmania.com/DB/stats.ph...e=Nathan+Astle

yep - my mistake - Styris is the current no4.....

:duh:

[anzac]

looks like Fleming has been past fit to play - Jones stays in the squad & Wiseman is released...........

Some concerns regarding the wet weather hampering the pitch preparation again...........

[Choora]

BC are 263 for 4 !!! Looks like NZ batters are taking Pak's over-rated bowling attack to the cleaners!


And i think Pak batsmen are going to struggle against NZ bowlers.

[Tim]

What the hell are NZ doing?
after being 192/2 they're now 266/5.

4 out of the 5 wickets fallen have been stupid shots. One gets the feeling McMillan & Cairns were told to go out & play their natural game..big mistake, thats when they lose their heads & get too carried away.

450 would have have been a good score..but NZ have thrown away their advantage in just 30 minutes. They'll be lucky to reach 350.

And if the pitch continues to brown out, then Pakistan shouldn't have too many problems on days 2 & 3 scoring runs.

[Tim]

273/6...Oram out, actually it was quite comical, after he was bowled around his legs he just stood there wondering what just happened.

NZ cannot play Cairns & Oram, its as simple as that.
Cairns hasn't played test cricket for 2 years & Oram pretends that he can hold a bat.
You'd also have to question the tactics of the middle order...it was frustrating to see McMillan & Cairns both looking to hit everything to the boundary. Im certain that they would have been told to do that...that was most unlike McMillan who played maturely in India & ended up one of the highest run scorers in that series.

[Kent]

The Styris and McMillan dismissals can happen when a leggie is getting turn and bounce, but what kind of shot was that from Cairns? Almost makes me wonder if Anzac has been right all along (almost). Geez, now Oram's out - Fleming should've put out the signal for Hart to bat at 7, considering spin and the new ball aren't exactly Oram's friends.

If Vettori can't lead our attack on this pitch bowling last, should we start calling him slightly over-rated? It's about time his average came out of the realms of a Steve Waugh, Nathan Astle or an Ashley Giles, and his home ground might be the right time & place for him to win his first real test match for NZ.

[Tim]

Nup, McMillan was asking for it...two 6's & odds on he was looking for another boundary, but it surprised him & the rest is history.

[Kent]

To me it looked like the fact Fleming told McMillan to settle down actually lead to the dismissal. He was in two minds and played it timidly, instead of hammering a regulation long-hop to the fence.

[Tim]

The ridiculous thing is, apart from a few good overs here & there..Pakistan's bowling has been largely erratic & their fielding has been average to say the least.

Not surprising though...NZ are notoriously bad at starting a test series poorly.

[Tim]

McMillan had already blasted 12 runs off the over, Fleming had every right to go down to McMillan and tell him to cool it off for the rest of the over.

Sure..McMillan could have gone & a hit a few more boundries, but there was also every risk that he could have hit one up in the air & been caught.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by Choora
BC are 263 for 4 !!! Looks like NZ batters are taking Pak's over-rated bowling attack to the cleaners!

263/4 is hardly 'to the cleaners'!

[Tim]

Well at 200/2, it was looking that way but NZ decided that the game was getting out of hand so they threw away a few wickets.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by Tim
What the hell are NZ doing?
after being 192/2 they're now 266/5.

4 out of the 5 wickets fallen have been stupid shots. One gets the feeling McMillan & Cairns were told to go out & play their natural game..big mistake, thats when they lose their heads & get too carried away.

That sounds almost West Indian. Congrats to Fleming.