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Thread: *Official* Pak In NZ Thread

  1. #16
    Tim
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    Aye?

    As far as im aware, Pakistan are playing 2 tests at Hamilton & Wellington.
    Auckland will play Pakistan tommorow at the Eden Park outer oval..but thats not a test.

    South Africa will play a test at Auckland but it'll definately be at the stadium...I don't think the #2 has international blessing from the ICC yet.

  2. #17
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    ok so the squad for the 1st Test has been announced and I'm ****ed off........

    Fleming, Richardson, Vincent, Jones, Styris, McMillian, Cairns, Oram, Hart, Vettori, Tuffey, Butler, Wiseman.

    13 players with 2 to be ommitted from the starting lineup. Jones is named as batting cover for Fleming so he is one probable, and I'm hoping the other is Cairns but it will probably be Wiseman, as NZ seldom take 2 spinners into a Test unless it is a real turner, and I can't see that being the case on domestic pitches at this time of year with so much wet weather.

    I'm ****ed that Cairns has been selected because IMO he does not deserve to be named on current form. He has not played Test cricket for some time, his form in recent ODIs with bat or ball has been poor (apart from 1 innings of 80+), and his current domestic form shows him having scored 9 runs from 11 balls, and taken 4/103 at 4.9 RPO - hardly Test match form so far as I'm concerned.

    IMO Cairns' inclusion in the playing XI will weaken the team so far as both batting or bowling is concerned because of his lack of form. IMO they would have done better to select Oram as the 'allrounder' and to have picked another specialist batsman or bowler, depending on what the pitch has been playing like. THey already have 4 seam options without Cairns so I am presuming they are looking at him to contribute with the bat, in which case Marshall or McIntosh could have been used, or Wilson as the form bowler.

    I'm also disappointed that Jones got the batting cover ahead of either Marshall or McIntosh - although it is understandable that the selectors want consistency with Jones fulfilling this role on the last 2 tours. My gripe here is that Jones in an opening bat & his style limits his coverage options. The other alternative is to use him to replace Vincent as opener, and use Vincent to cover the top / middle order - but yet again this will be screwing around with Vincent's role in the team at a time when he is starting to get back on track!

    I prefer Marshall & McIntosh as they have more options in coverage. Marshall gets my vote as he has current form v Pakistan & has a Test cap already. I'm not too concerned about his domestic form as it appears to me that he is a big game player.

    I'd like to see McIntosh get a run in the squad (at least) very soon because his conversion rate in domestic cricket is 2nd to none - 24 ys old, 61 innings, 7no, 7x100s & 10x50s at an average of a touch under 41.


  3. #18
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    Well I can't share your angst at Cairns' selection, a fit Cairns has always been a certainty for any NZ team. If Fleming is fit and they leave out Jones and Wiseman (which is likely) they will have the team that I picked

    I am however disappointed that Jones was preferred ahead of McIntosh, and Wiseman's selection is a bit ridiculous really.

    As for Marshall, nope, I can't agree with your rationale at all, he's done less to deserve selection than Lou Vincent had so odds are he'll be as crap if not crapper.

  4. #19
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    In NZ Pak is going to get hammered!! Face it, Pak has a lowsy batting line up and in NZ condition they would struggle to even reach 100 in one innings (irrespective of the fact that Bond willplay or not).

    When batsmen of the class of Tendulkar/Dravid and Laxman weren't able to perform well on NZ pitches, then how the hell can we expect Pakistani batters to play decent cricket.


    Atmost Inzi might get some runs!
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  5. #20
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    Assuming Pakistanis getting pasted in NZ and India comming out stronger at the end of Australian series, the upcomming Indo-Pak series would become very interesting.This is what Akram said recently, Aussie series is only going to make Indian team stronger.If Indian batsmen can take Ausie bowlers with ease, then facing Pakistani bowlers would be like a piece of cake.:saint:

  6. #21
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    Originally posted by thierry henry
    Well I can't share your angst at Cairns' selection, a fit Cairns has always been a certainty for any NZ team. If Fleming is fit and they leave out Jones and Wiseman (which is likely) they will have the team that I picked

    I am however disappointed that Jones was preferred ahead of McIntosh, and Wiseman's selection is a bit ridiculous really.

    As for Marshall, nope, I can't agree with your rationale at all, he's done less to deserve selection than Lou Vincent had so odds are he'll be as crap if not crapper.
    TH we are going to have to agree to disagree on these ones.......

    Any player selected should be 100% fit, especially if they are classified as an 'allrounder'. Furthermore they should have some current form, if not be amongst THE form players of the moment - Cairns has no current form with bat or ball to justify his selection ahead of other 'allrounders', let alone specialist batsmen or bowlers. IMO his selection is based up reputation which is 2-3 seasons past it's use by date. He has not played Test cricket for some time due to injury, and has had 1 decent ODI innings since the VB series in Australia, which was the last itme he had any success with the ball! :!(

    So far as Marshall goes forget about his domestic form as he was selected for the ODIs in Pakistan and IMO he appears to be a big time player - his domestic form is indifferent but he is able to step up a level for internationals or the big occaision (joint player of the match with James in last years Shield Final v Auckalnd).

    He has current international form v Pakistan including a ton & 2 50s in 5 innings, batted thru the innings twice, at a series average & run rate of 80 - and you don't want to select him? In comparison neither Jones or McIntosh (whom I want to see given an opportunity) have any international credibility between them. :P

    So far as the Vincent arguement goes Marshall had been selected previously rightly or wrongly, but more importantly he has not failed at international level in either form of the game, despite basically a 3 year break & 2 different types of game.

    When he has been given the same number of opportunities at international level as Sinclair, let alone Vincent, and his record is worse than theirs, then you can come back and say I told you so.


  7. #22
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    Originally posted by Choora
    In NZ Pak is going to get hammered!! Face it, Pak has a lowsy batting line up and in NZ condition they would struggle to even reach 100 in one innings (irrespective of the fact that Bond willplay or not).

    When batsmen of the class of Tendulkar/Dravid and Laxman weren't able to perform well on NZ pitches, then how the hell can we expect Pakistani batters to play decent cricket.


    Atmost Inzi might get some runs!

    Nope - wrong, & why??????........


    Pakistan's batting lineup may not be as good as Australia, India or possibly RSA or even SRL, but it is still good on paper, and stronger than NZ's - as was India's last year;

    The pitches are unlikely to be as bad 2 seasons in a row - no nullifying of the Pakistani batting ;

    Even if they are the Pakistani seam attack is better suited to exploit this even more so than the NZ seam attack. India's seam attack last year was crap & did not have the ability to exploit the pitches.


  8. #23
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    Originally posted by Choora
    Assuming Pakistanis getting pasted in NZ and India comming out stronger at the end of Australian series, the upcomming Indo-Pak series would become very interesting.This is what Akram said recently, Aussie series is only going to make Indian team stronger.If Indian batsmen can take Ausie bowlers with ease, then facing Pakistani bowlers would be like a piece of cake.:saint:

    So far the Indian batsmen have done well, now they have to learn to do it as a Team.

    I'd hardly call facing Ahktar & Sami a piece of cake at the best of times........


  9. #24
    Tim
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    the squad was not going to change much from the team that went to India really....If they had lost 2-0 in India then some players might have got the boot, but as it stands it was 0-0 & most of the players put in some solid performances.

    I don't really think Bracewell wanted to go too far outside the square just yet...maybe we'll see some major changes when NZ tour England mid-way through next year..I reckon McIntosh, Marshall & maybe Jesse Ryder will feature in that touring squad.

    There's just not enough time in this test series to pick new players or drop players..I think though that some players could be playing for spots in the South African series...mainly Cairns, Vincent, Oram & Butler.

  10. #25
    Tim
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    Well McIntosh has a big chance now to impress against Pakistan.
    He's 13* after hitting 3 consecutive boundries off Sami.
    Vincent is already out for 5, so there will be some serious competition between those 2 at the moment.

  11. #26
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    good to see Walker get amongst the wickets again - I'd love to see NZ make a concentrated effort to develop more wrist spin rather than the natural tendancy for finger spin............


  12. #27
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    Originally posted by Tim
    the squad was not going to change much from the team that went to India really....If they had lost 2-0 in India then some players might have got the boot, but as it stands it was 0-0 & most of the players put in some solid performances.

    I don't really think Bracewell wanted to go too far outside the square just yet...maybe we'll see some major changes when NZ tour England mid-way through next year..I reckon McIntosh, Marshall & maybe Jesse Ryder will feature in that touring squad.

    There's just not enough time in this test series to pick new players or drop players..I think though that some players could be playing for spots in the South African series...mainly Cairns, Vincent, Oram & Butler.

    Oh I wasn't expecting many changes - nor was I calling for any - just that the injuries have presented some opportunities that I felt could have been taken advantage of.......

    I know Jones has been the batting cover on the last 2 tours, but now I feel there is at least 1 if not 2 more options in Marshall & McIntosh.

    Vincent's form was not that bad and his domestic form has been as good as any, same with Oram & Butler.

    While I find Wiseman's selection a bit hard to fathom, it is the selection of Cairns & his current 'form' that riles me, as I feel it is not in keeping with Bracewell's comments about players being capable of doing their job / roles. Further to this Cairns was not in the Test squad to India & is effectively in the team as replacement for Astle, who was one of the form batsmen of that series.

    This means we are going from 6 specialist batsmen down to 5 with one unknown quantity. As you pointed out in a 2 Test series it is unlikely that anyone will be replaced for the 2nd Test unless thru injury.

    He has probably had more chances given with no form than anyone else in the squad. At least Vincent gets it together on occaision, and even Macca was allowed to stand down / left out of the SRL tour to work on his form. Sinclair has been dropped and is unable to get back in favour on the same kind of form!

    They must think he walks on water or he is untouchable, because for the last 2 seasons he has rarely threatened & even more seldomly delivered. I could tolerate it if his domestic form was solid, but no!!! His bark is definately worse than his bite and I think it is embarrasing to see a great player struggle so badly! It's almost like the punch drunk ex champ trying to get back in the ring for one more crack at the title........

    :!(

  13. #28
    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    India's pace attack may not be great but on those pitches last year, NZ's batsmen didn't exactly cover themselves with glory against India's "crap" attack as you so eloquently put it.

    And let's face it, barring Bond, the rest of NZ's seam attack still have to prove they can take wickets on a consistent basis outside New Zealand.

    Tiffey averages something like 45 outside NZ doesn't he ?

  14. #29
    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    sorry --- I'll try again, Darryl Tuffey

  15. #30
    Tim
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    that is correct, although he's only played 9 tests overseas so far in his career.

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