*Official* Pak In NZ Thread

[thierry henry]

Define threatening.

Mills bowls 130s, gets movement away and is usually accurate back of a length.

It's worked for Shaun Pollock and Glenn McGrath.

 

[southern man]

I still think his action is abit dodgy.

 

[thierry henry]

Can someone explain to me the proper definition of a chuck?

I was under the impression that your arm could be bent or straight, as long as it stayed consistent throughout the delivery. What's illegal is the bending OR straightening of the arm.

Is this correct?

Because Mills has a bit of a bent elbow when he bowls, but his action is so robotic that there is no real suggestion of him straightening it. Therefore I don't think he is a chucker. Ditto Shoaib.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'm not actually sure about this any more. It would be interesting to see what Mr. Mxyzptlk thinks, as I've read a lot of stories about the boom of American sports in the Caribbean.

The West Indies FC competition is pretty weak. The pitches are dead for the most part and it's way too short to develop proper players.

In the region there are about 60% substandard players, 30% good players, 5% truly promising youngsters and 5% potential world-class players. As I said above, the biggest problem IMO is the length. It leaves players inactive for most of the year - about 8 to 9 months.

 

[cbuts]

theirry you hit on the head, as i understand the law. if ur arm is bent its must stay betn etc. thats y murali is fine. i think akthar only chucks his effort ball otehr than that he is fine, in my opinion

 

[Craig]

Butler's run up seems fine, then his head goes back and his knee collapes when he is about to bowl so he is bowling off balanced.

 

[Kent]

Mr Mxyzpltk - Sounds quite a bit like our FC competition when I think about it, but with less predictable wickets! Thanks.

That guy Nel I was asking about seems pretty useful. Here's the most recent SA attack v. ours, just out of interest...

Pollock RFM (MF?) (Ave: 23 ER: 3.74)
Nel RFM (23, 4.21)
Dawson RMF (32, 4.63)
Ntini RF (23, 4.21)
Peterson SLA (63, 4.76)
Kallis RFM (31, 4.70)

Tuffey RFM (29, 4.59)
Mills RFM (27, 4.19)
Oram RFM (30, 4.49)
Cairns RFM (29, 4.78)
Vettori SLA (37, 4.36)
Styris RMF (31, 4.81)

Not sure if these have been updated for Napier.

 

[marc71178]

why the hell is pakistan playing like zimbabwe?

Didn't India do the same on similar wickets last season in NZ (when they were hammered in the ODI series)

 

[marc71178]

I think Tuffey is getting better.

Always rated him myself - he seems to be Mr dependable.

Oram plays well in NZ, but is a little consistent overseas...I think he'll have a good contest with Flintoff when NZ tour England later in the year.

Only one winner for me there, if Freddie can carry his form on...

 

[anzac]

encouraging result for NZ to win the series, and a confidence boost for those players under the spotlight........

disappointing to see the pitch retain it's movement & uneven bounce for as long as it did, although it was nowhere near as bad as the Pakistan batting made it appear......

The NZ bowlers struggled with their line to start with, with Tuffey going at 6 an over.....the introduction of Oram saw the brakes applied & together with Mills he was able to make inroads into the Pakistani lineup.........

Tuffey came back well in his 2nd spell, and Cairns bowled well until Ahktar took the long handle to him.........seems a recurrent theme for Cairns - 3 tidy overs to start & an early wicket but then gets smashed about around the 4 - 6 over mark........

great fielding effort inside the circle by Marshall & Cumming saw pressure applied to the Pakistani batsmen, which helped create the situation for some wayward shots to try to move the score - usually ending in dismissal........

Fleming continued his run of form with the bat b4 being bullied by Ahktar, with Mahmood benefiting to claim the wicket........Marshall got too keen to early & came down the track & got stumped - another delivery rebounding off the 'keeper & onto the stumps......Cumming & Cairns saw NZ thru to a pretty comfortable win...........

good signs for Cumming & Cairns, with Cumming claiming his highest ODI score in 45 no, & Cairns getting some shape to his bowling & also getting into double figures with the bat.........

the selectors will be starting to feel justified in their persistance with the pair, however improvement must still be shown in the final ODI in Wellington on Saturday........

 

[anzac]

Always rated him myself - he seems to be Mr dependable.





Only one winner for me there, if Freddie can carry his form on...

Tuffey has been Mr Dependable allright, but he is not 'on song' at the moment.........he has a rep of taking early wickets & keeping it tight, but in the last 2 ODIs he has had to be removed from the attack early conceeding 5 / 6 rpo - however he has come back well in his subsequent spell/s.......

Oram seems to be growing in confidence with each series be it Test or ODI.........by the time NZ go to England it will be very interesting indeed ........

 

[anzac]

Define threatening.

Mills bowls 130s, gets movement away and is usually accurate back of a length.

It's worked for Shaun Pollock and Glenn McGrath.

his FC average is about 30.............

although I haven't seen Mason, I'd rather have Mills because he does something different - swing...........although I don't know if he can get reverse / in-swing............same theory as to why I like Franklin - left arm seam = different angle of attack - rather than everyone being RFM........

the only problems I see with him is that he IS back of a length & should pitch it up a yard or so more.............

perhaps NZ should entertain the idea of a 'horses for cources' selection policy re the type of pitches being played on & weather conditions etc............eg cloudy / humid = swing conditions - Mills, hard / bouncy - Butler etc.........

 

[anzac]

I still thought he looks pretty awkward when not playing lovely shots down the ground, but it's good to have an opener that doesn't try to bat in a pipe dream as Vincent and Nevin often do. Also good in the field and between the wickets.

He could be OK against the likes of Pollock and Kallis, although I imagine Ntini will fancy his chances of both hurrying him up, giving him nothing to drive, and cramping that cut shot. What's Nel like? Is Ngam still around?

Cumming still looked uncomfortable against pace & was late on his strokes.....

IMO Ntini will be a problem for him bowling at the pace & wide angle coming back into him........

 

[anzac]

bond wont be back for the yuppies.

isn't the term 'yarpies' not 'yuppies'?????

 

[anzac]

I am Vincent's no.1 detractor and have been bagging him for ages but I wouldn't ever say his problem was "lack of foot movement" per se. He's a bit like Chris Harris- anything in his half is met with a massive thrust of the pad down the wicket in the general direction of the ball, and the ball usually ends up hitting pad instead of bat.

Like I said, I think his technique is just too agricultural. Anything wide of off stump he plonks the foot down the pitch and thrashes at. Anything around or just outside off he plonks the foot down the pitch and prods the bat at it. When the ball is on his pads he either plays a cracking pull-shot or on-drive, or gets bowled.

As far as I'm concerned he isn't good enough to play one-day cricket, despite his fielding and athleticism. He doesn't have the ability to score quickly and not get out against international bowlers.

I'm not so sure - his ODI innings at Jade V India was all you could ask for...........similarly his Test innings in India was without luck.......

he has talent & ability with the bat in both forms of the game as his domestic form continues to show this season - tons in both Championship & Shield games...........& his strike rates in both are as good as any going..........

IMO he has several problems:
- I believe he likes to play his shots & is aggressive, but has poor selection when not in confidence..........hence the kamakazi exhibitions in ODIs......
- the selectors have done him no favors as he is batting out of position as Opening bat in either Tests or ODIs at International level - IMO he lacks the discipline for the position against the better class of attack unless he goes into shut down mode.........I think his natural game is better suited down the order in both Tests & ODIs...
- his lack of confidence in the international arena has all but crippled his career..........


there are IMO further issues regarding team selection - Richardson, X, Fleming, Styris, Astle, McMillan, Cairns, Oram, Hart, Vettori, Tuffey...........add Bond into the picture & there is a real problem for any batsmen to break into the side other than as an Opener, which Vincent is not............

 

[anzac]

I'm beginning to believe in Bracewell, after the horror of Queenstown, Bracewell said they were close to fixing some problems & that they would get things right...well things aren't perfect, but they've achieved what they said they wanted to do & you can actually see the confidence in some of the players returning.

my jury is still out on this one.....IMO it has taken too long (8 ODIs) to get any 'return' from either Cumming or Cairns..........and as far as I can see the issues regarding bowling at the death are still not resolved.............

I still do not like the 'balance' of either the team or the bowling attack..........bottom line I think Bracewell has 'towed the line' somewhat this series regarding previous selection decisions......

I think new players (both batsmen & bowlers) need to be introduced into both Test & ODI squads to create more competition for places, this will then help to ensure that the players perform & are 100% fit when selected - atm there are too many inconsistant performances from senior players from within a tour, let alone series to series.........

England & Pakistan seem to have had an almost revolving door selection process with too many changes, while RSA & AUS seem to have it about right........compared to most other countries NZ seems almost reluctant to introduce new players unless forced by injury - as a consequence our player pool of full international experience is 'short'..............

 

[Kent]

Cumming still looked uncomfortable against pace & was late on his strokes.....

IMO Ntini will be a problem for him bowling at the pace & wide angle coming back into him........

I think you're right Anzac. Hearing all the praise made me wonder if I'd been too hard on a new player facing 10 straight games against the fastest attack in the world. Looking at the papers this morning though has snapped me out of it a bit. "Coming of Age"?

I know it's an easy play on words but geez, it was hardly anything of the sort. No-one can be sure Papps wouldn't be on double or triple his aggregate of 49 after 4 games.

 

[cbuts]

i think ur being a bit harsh anzac. i think its been the best decision from nz cricket in a long time - giving cumming the series. many new players struggle not only with self confidence and a fear of failuire when the first come into the team. we have been guilty of getting rid of potentially class players just because they havent had results straight away. marvin attupautu is the classic example of this, today sri lanka woudnt dream of leaving him out of there test team, but the start of his career is a world record for the amount of ducks. i beleive it was 10 in his first 18 tests. australia persisted with steve waugh at the start of his career which was filled with failures. he took about 3 years to get a century.

nz dosent have the playing depth to rotate players like some nations. there are really only about 12-13 plyers up to the standard. i personally believe we need to have a nza team again. get them touring overseas and we might find new players without risking them at the top level

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Atapattu is still IMO one of the most inconsistent batsmen in Test cricket. Considering his talent and technique, he should be scoring more runs more often.

 

[Tim]

I think Flintoff is clearly ahead of Oram at the moment, but it'll be interesting to see in a few years.

If Oram maintains his test record of around 30 with the bat & 23 with the ball then he'll overtake Flintoff.
I think eventually though Oram will end up averaging around 28 with the ball.